Posted on 08/15/2008 1:47:27 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
The standard?
Wow...and mormons continue to wonder why Christians oppose mormonism.
Amazing......
Well you get the point.
One day they will actually address the posts not work around them...
Then there will be a huge rift in space time...
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? So, you can put down that stone. Unless you want more scriptures? [DanielLongo]
DL, you know as well as the rest of us that Jesus was simply quoting Psalm 82 in John 10. Here's Psalm 82, and especially note the verses & words in bold face:
1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Wanna explain, DL, how it is that these "gods" will "die like men?" (v. 7). Wanna explain, DL, how it is that these "gods" are unjust judges? (v. 2)
Even LDS apostle James Talmage recognized that John 10 & Ps. 82 is a reference to human judges empowered with divine authority:
"Plainly they had found no ambiguity in His words. He then cited to them the scriptures, wherein even judges empowered by divine authority are called gods...." (Jesus the Christ, chapter 28)
Being "called" a god Scripturally is not the same thing as being (or becoming) by nature a divine being. For example, your wallet can become a person's "god." That doesn't mean your wallet is by nature a "god."
Moreover, if you know anything about the people in the Book of Mormon, the descendants of those inhabitants are referred to as the Lamanites. In the Doctrine and Covenants, Joseph Smith called several bretheren to take the Gospel to the Lamanites, as had been promised them in the scriptures. Every tribe he sent missionaries to is a member of HaplogroupX. That is not coincidence. You might also take note, based on your previous assumptions as to where the Church or the Prophet thought the Lamanites lived, that he never sent anyone to preach to the "Lamanites in Central America" He does not even mention Central and South America. For years anti Mormons have propped up academics who are also members of the Church and their belief that Central America was the setting for the Book of Mormon. The only fruit of their quest to make it so has been to divorce themselves from the Prophet Joseph.
He never said anything about Central America, which has been more of Church culture, since no Prophet of the Restoration has said that is where it was. In fact, as late as 2 years ago, the late Gordon B. Hinckley (Prophet of the Lord's Church) said the evidence had not come forth yet. It was in a discussion with a German reporter who thought to score some points when, at that time, DNA evidence showed no link between the indigenous lines of Central and South America with the Near East. All of the Church critics were quick to seize on this as a "nail in the coffin" to Mormonism. Little did they know that just two years later a confirming witness would come forth, not just showing a "European" DNA haplogroup- in which researchers would include the Near East, but strikingly confirming its link to Israel specifically, which is where the Book of Mormon says they came from.
I will continue when you have done more research. I won't spoon feed you the rest. Let me know if you have any questions on what you find.
They opposed Him then, too.
WOW!!!
I missed that one...
Whew...
I asked do you believe Jesus is a son of god or The Son of God?
No the question you ask #120 was
“By the way do you mean a son of god or The Son of God?”
****
What is the deal with the scripture the question is for you.
***
Not so fast svcw, to me scriptures testify of Jesus Chirst so now do you object to sceiptures too?
If a man be called a god by God, what is your problem. We can become gods is exactly what the Psalmist is saying. We do not become God, unless you believe in the Trinity because it says:
John 17 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Your teaching of the Trinity is that Jesus and Heavenly Father are the same being because the scriptures say Jesus is one with the Father. Following that line of thinking, then we are also to be part of the Trinity. By your own theology we are not just gods, but God. Of course, this can only be true if you believe the concept of the Trinity, which I might add is mentioned nowhere in the scriptures
DL, you've yet to explain how this statement of yours -- 100% contradicted by the LDS "Scripture" Zakeet cited in post #131 (along with other LDS general authority slams against historic & contemporary Christianity and Christians & non-Mormon churches)-- can possibly stand up to any measure of truth.
The "Restored gospel" reference of yours includes the "restored gospel" doctrine of a supposed "universal" apostasy. Marion G. Romney, the one-time head of the LDS missionary enterprise, said that this teaching (universal apostasy & restoration) was one of the top three teachings that LDS missionaries needed to proclaim.
Zakeet cited this in the LDS "Scriptures" -- showing quite clearly that the LDS church indeed attacks and preaches against the historic Christian faith:
My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong) – and which I should join. … I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." He again forbade me to join with any of them. (Pearl of Great Price, Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith History 1:18-20)
Still insist on claiming a whole other culture as your own.
We have discussed that before.
Tell you what, since the burden of proof is on you not me, get me any information from a NON LDS source that backs this up.
You seem to have all this at hand, so it should be easy.
Wait, I am feeling a bit giving so here:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1377656&blobtype=pdf
http://www.humpath.com/Haplogroup-X
And just a little tid bit, I can read The Lord of the Rings with great confidence and authority, still doesn’t mean there were Hobbits. Trying to sound erudite whilst promoting a mixed bag of loose “science” doesn't make you more correct, just more annoying.
Exactly how long have you have this reading problem of yours? Whatever you make of these verses in Ps. 82 & John 10 -- none of them say a single word about "becoming" gods. Whatever representation of God they had, it's something they already were -- never something they were to become!
Look at both Ps. 82:6 and John 10:34:
6I have said, Ye are gods
34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Jesus then clarifies it for us in John 10:35:
35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken...
The apostle Paul also clarifies this for us:
5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1 Cor. 8:5-6)
Satan is a "god" to his worshippers. That doesn't make him a "god" by nature. But he is "called" a god because he has usurped rulership authority in this world that rightly belongs only to God alone.
The bottom line here is that whatever "godness" mere mortal Mormons try to claim, Scripture never allows you the luxury of trying to claim this is a future tense acquisition. I defy you to show me just one passage from your "quad" -- the Book of Mormon, from Doctrine & Covenants, from the Pearl of Great Price, or the Bible, which says that men become gods in the future.
It's the exact same thing with perfection. Matthew 5:48 says "be ye perfect" -- not "become perfect" -- but be perfect right now.
The fact is, DL, that the "gods" cited in Psalm 82 are...
...unjust
...and mortal (they die)
Unjust gods can never be true gods-by-nature gods.
You cited John 17:21 re: the oneness of Jesus disciples with Jesus and His Father: Men who are married are "one" with their wives. That doesn't mean they become female does it? (Your scatter-brained logic)
Your teaching of the Trinity is that Jesus and Heavenly Father are the same being because the scriptures say Jesus is one with the Father.
It goes well beyond that. For instance, all of the attributes ascribed to the Father also apply to Jesus. Jesus said in John 14, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father."
Following that line of thinking, then we are also to be part of the Trinity. By your own theology we are not just gods, but God.
No. We are mortal, God is immortal.
We are imperfect, God is perfect.
God is from eternity past as Creator; we are created beings.
God is omniscient & omnipotent & omnipresent. We see through a mirror darkly and are weak & can only be in one place at one time.
Remember Ps. 82:6 and John 10:34 -- ye "are" gods...So, if you & other Mormon males are already gods, show us your omniscience...your omnipotence...your omnipresence...your perfection. You can't. You are propagating an open lie that comes from the very mouth of the serpent in the garden who lied to Eve when he told her that if they ate of the fruit, their eyes would be opened: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (Gen. 3:5).
(Please tell us how your message is distinctive from the Serpent's in Gen. 3:5?)
Of course, this can only be true if you believe the concept of the Trinity, which I might add is mentioned nowhere in the scriptures.
"The Bible" is nowhere mentioned in the Bible -- that doesn't cancel it out, does it? Where is "general authorities" in the Bible? Where is the word "missionary" in the Bible? Where is "Quorum?" Where is "Stake?" Where is "President?" Where is "abortion?" (I could come up with dozens of very good Biblical concept words & dozens more of Mormon-specific words that are nowhere to be found there).
John 1:1,14: “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” “And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.”
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
There are others, but I only have to see Apple Pie on one menu to know the restaurant has it.
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the standard of Christianity."
Goes along with the newest talking point from the Corporation...You haven't noticed it before? I've questioned some about it.
"God's church..." "The Lord's Church"...
Since Christians aren't bowing to the demand of the mormons that they be called "Christian", they have decided to co-opt God and claim that He has given them His "official seal" as "His Church"!
We will be seeing more of it. The arrogance is unending.
It's been called that for some time by the leaders, but there must have been a memo sent out to the apologists to use it on the internet.
Goes along with the newest talking point from the Corporation... [GF]
Hmmm...how would the LDS folks respond if we said about their break-off groups?:
The Church of FundamentalistLatter-day Saints is the standard of Mormonism.
Or, The Reorganized Church of LDS (now called "Community of Christ") is the standard of Latter-day Saintism.
Hmmm...how would the LDS folks respond if we said about their break-off groups?: The Church of Fundamentalist Latter-day Saints is the standard of Mormonism. Or, The Reorganized Church of LDS (now called "Community of Christ") is the standard of Latter-day Saintism.
I nominate the original Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Strang's calling as the genuine successor to Joseph Smith was accepted by a number of leading Saints including: John Whitmer, David Whitmer, Martin Harris, Hiram Page, John E. Page, William McLellin, William Smith, Emma Smith, the sisters of Joseph Smith, William Marks, George Miller, and other Smith family members.
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