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Life On Gold Plates - (LDS) Open
http://lifeongoldplates.blogspot.com/2008/08/bushmans-introduction-to-joseph-smith.html ^ | August 14, 2008 | Richard Bushman

Posted on 08/15/2008 1:47:27 PM PDT by greyfoxx39

August 14, 2008

Bushman's Introduction to "Joseph Smith and His Critics" Seminar

The following is Richard Bushman's introduction to the 2008 summer seminar, “Joseph Smith and His Critics,” given July 29, 2008. I also have a poor mp3 recording of the paper and in the next week or so I plan on blogging any additions Bushman made in reading the paper to the group. For my thoughts on the seminar in general, see "Preliminary Thoughts on the 2008 Bushman Seminar," and "Follow-up Thoughts on the 2008 Bushman Seminar." For notes on the presentations themselves, see Juvenile Instructor's "Notes on the 2008 Bushman Seminar," parts one and two.

Introduction
Richard Bushman

Increasingly teachers and church leaders at all levels are approached by Latter-day Saints who have lost confidence in Joseph Smith and the basic miraculous events of church history. They doubt the First Vision, the Book of Mormon, many of Joseph’s revelations, and much besides. They fall into doubt after going on the Internet and finding shocking information about Joseph Smith based on documents and facts they had never heard before. A surprising number had not known about Joseph Smith’s plural wives. They are set back by differences in the various accounts of the First Vision. They find that Egyptologists do not translate the Abraham manuscripts the way Joseph Smith did, making it appear that the Book of Abraham was a fabrication. When they come across this information in a critical book or read it on one of the innumerable critical Internet sites, they feel as if they had been introduced to a Joseph Smith and a Church history they had never known before. They undergo an experience like viewing the famous picture of a beautiful woman who in a blink of an eye turns into an old hag. Everything changes. What are they to believe?

Often church leaders, parents, and friends, do not understand the force of this alternate view. Not knowing how to respond, they react defensively. They are inclined to dismiss all the evidence as anti-Mormon or of the devil. Stop reading these things if they upset you so much, the inquirer is told. Or go back to the familiar formula: scriptures, prayer, church attendance.

The troubled person may have been doing all of these things sincerely, perhaps even desperately. He or she feels the world is falling apart. Everything these inquirers put their trust in starts to crumble. They want guidance more than ever in their lives, but they don’t seem to get it. The facts that have been presented to them challenge almost everything they believe. People affected in this way may indeed stop praying; they don’t trust the old methods because they feel betrayed by the old system. Frequently they are furious. On their missions they fervently taught people about Joseph Smith without knowing any of these negative facts. Were they taken advantage of? Was the Church trying to fool them for its own purposes?
These are deeply disturbing questions. They shake up everything. Should I stay in the Church? Should I tell my family? Should I just shut up and try to get along? Who can help me?

At this point, these questioners go off in various directions. Some give up on the Church entirely. They find another religion or, more likely these days, abandon religion altogether. Without their familiar Mormon God, they are not sure there is any God at all. They become atheist or agnostic. Some feel the restrictions they grew up with no longer apply. The strength has been drained out of tithing, the Word of Wisdom, and chastity. They partly welcome the new freedom of their agnostic condition. Now they can do anything they please without fear of breaking the old Mormon rules. The results may not be happy for them or their families.

Others piece together a morality and a spiritual attitude that stops them from declining morally, but they are not in an easy place. When they go to church, , they are not comfortable. Sunday School classes and Sacrament meeting talks about Joseph Smith and the early church no longer ring true. How can these people believe these “fairy tales,” the inquirers ask. Those who have absorbed doses of negative material live in two minds: their old church mind which now seems naive and credulous, and their new enlightened mind with its forbidden knowledge learned on the internet and from critical books.

A friend who is in this position described the mindset of the disillusioned member this way:

“Due to the process of learning, which they have gone through, these [two-minded] LDS often no longer accept the church as the only true one (with the only true priesthood authority and the only valid sacred ordinances), but they see it as a Christian church, in which good, inspired programs are found as well as failure and error. They no longer consider inspiration, spiritual and physical healing, personal and global revelation limited to the LDS church. In this context, these saints may attend other churches, too, where they might have spiritual experiences as well. They interpret their old spiritual experiences differently, understanding them as testimonies from God for them personally, as a result of their search and efforts, but these testimonies don’t necessarily have to be seen as a confirmation that the LDS church is the only true one.

“Since the social relationships between them and other ward (or stake) members suffer (avoidance, silence, even mobbing) because of their status as heretics, which is usually known via gossip, and since the extent of active involvement and range of possible callings are reduced because of their nonconformity in various areas, there is a risk that they end up leaving the church after all, because they are simply ignored by the majority of the other members.”

He then offers a recommendation: 

“It is necessary that the church not only shows more support and openness to these ‘apostates’ but also teaches and advises all members, bishops, stake presidents etc., who usually don’t know how to deal with such a situation in terms of organizational and ecclesiastical questions and – out of insecurity – fail to treat the critical member with the necessary love and respect that even a normal stranger would receive.”

Those are the words of someone who has lost belief in many of the fundamentals and is working out a new relationship to the Church. Other shaken individuals recover their belief in the basic principles and events but are never quite the same as before. Their knowledge, although no longer toxic, gives them a new perspective. They tend to be more philosophic and less dogmatic about all the stories they once enjoyed. Here are some of the characteristics of people who have passed through this ordeal but managed to revive most of their old beliefs.

1. They often say they learned the Prophet was human. They don’t expect him to be a model of perfect deportment as they once thought. He may have taken a glass of wine from time to time, or scolded his associates, or even have made business errors. They see his virtues and believe in his revelations but don’t expect perfection.

2. They also don’t believe he was led by revelation in every detail. They see him as learning gradually to be a prophet and having to feel his way at times like most Church members. In between the revelations, he was left to himself to work out the methods of complying with the Lord’s commandments. Sometimes he had to experiment until he found the right way.

3. These newly revived Latter-day Saints also develop a more philosophical attitude toward history. They come to see (like professional historians) that facts can have many interpretations. Negative facts are not necessarily as damning as they appear at first sight. Put in another context along side other facts, they do not necessarily destroy Joseph Smith’s reputation.

4. Revived Latter-day Saints focus on the good things they derive from their faith–the community of believers, the comforts of the Holy Spirit, the orientation toward the large questions of life, contact with God, moral discipline, and many others. They don’t want to abandon these good things. Starting from that point of desired belief, they are willing to give Joseph Smith and the doctrine a favorable hearing. They may not be absolutely certain about every item, but they are inclined to see the good and the true in the Church.

At the heart of this turmoil is the question of trust. Disillusioned Latter-day Saints feel their trust has been betrayed. They don’t know whom to trust. They don’t dare trust the old feelings that once were so powerful, nor do they trust church leaders. They can only trust the new knowledge they have acquired. Those who come back to the Church are inclined to trust their old feelings. Their confidence in the good things they knew before is at least partially restored. But they sort out the goodness that seems still vital from the parts that now seem no longer tenable. Knowledge not only has given them a choice, it has compelled them to choose. They have to decide what they really believe. In the end, many are more stable and convinced than before. They feel better prepared to confront criticism openly, confident they can withstand it.

- - - -

The members of the seminar on “Joseph Smith and His Critics,” a group of Religious Education and CES faculty who met at BYU for six weeks in the summer of 2008, are among those who have known Latter-day Saints in this state of confusion and doubt. We have had many opportunities to talk to questioners about their problems and admit that we have often fallen short in our answers. We came together in hopes of learning to do better. Besides gathering information on a series of specific issues, we have discussed how best to deal with questioning Saints. What way of speaking is most likely to win their trust and convince them we have their best interests at heart?

We began by agreeing that criticisms of Joseph Smith should not be dismissed as foolish or purely evil. The negative attacks that disturb first-time readers are usually based on facts, not merely prejudiced fabrications. To play down the force of the criticism, we believe, only convinces the seekers that we do not understand. We appear to be sweeping trouble under the rug. They may have been devastated by a criticism; we must show that we understand why. Consequently, the seminar took as its first principle to state the negative argument as fully and accurately as we can. We try not to minimize the difficulty or prejudice the case against the critic. In no other way can we persuade the doubters that we understand the problem.

Secondly, we try to avoid dogmatic answers. Rather than replace the dogmatic negative attacks of the critics with our own dogmatic answers, we attempt to show that a more positive interpretation is possible. Critics often claim that Joseph’s sins were so egregious as to utterly disqualify him as a prophet. We can understand their viewpoint, but we think there is another side to the story. Rather than destroy the critics, we want to loosen their grip. In the long run, we believe this approach will persuade questioners more effectively than claims to certainty where none is possible. We believe in stating our own strong convictions about the church as a whole, but we do not to pretend to perfect knowledge about complex historical questions.

We know that airing criticisms troubles many Latter-day Saints. Like most Church teachers, the members of the seminar do not want to draw attention to questions that will only unsettle faithful members. But we also feel that silence is not the answer. The absence of instruction troubles questioners more than anything. They feel they have been betrayed because they came through their Church classes ignorant of the devastating information now a few clicks away on the internet. The gaps in their education leave them disillusioned and angry.

To counteract this lack of preparation, the seminar members have taken as our motto the scripture that begins: “As all have not faith, teach one another” (D&C 88:118). We are encouraged by the scriptural recognition that not all have faith, and by the appealing remedy, “teach one another.” For many questioners, loneliness is the heart of the problems. No one seems to understand. We are enjoined by this scripture to find these seekers and bring them into a fellowship of inquiry. We hope that our papers will help Church teachers create safe havens where questions may be asked and answers explored--where we can teach one another.
____________________________________________
Richard L. Bushman is a Professor Emeritus of History, Columbia University, the current holder of the Howard W. Hunter visiting professorship in Mormon studies at Claremont Graduate University, and author of the recent biography Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling

 


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To: Zakeet
I'm happy to take these one at a time to show where you have misquoted and quoted correctly and gotten it completely wrong.

First:

And the angel of God said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. – Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10-11

How is this an attack on Christianity? Do you confuse a particular church with "Christianity"? If so, what church do you believe is "Christianity"?

141 posted on 08/17/2008 3:16:16 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: DanielLongo

apastate - another slam


142 posted on 08/17/2008 3:17:00 PM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: svcw
John 10

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

So, you can put down that stone. Unless you want more scriptures?

143 posted on 08/17/2008 3:19:43 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: greyfoxx39
Thoughtful opposition will always be met with civility and discourse. The brand of “liars and bigots” found on FR will also be dealt with accordingly.
144 posted on 08/17/2008 3:22:29 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: svcw

What are you talking about? Is this the part where you go incoherent?


145 posted on 08/17/2008 3:24:13 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: greyfoxx39

There used to be a whole lot more sites with those lyrics on them....many have “disappeared”.

http://www.lds.org/cm/catalogsearchalpha/1,17929,4782-1-1,00.html#nullLink


146 posted on 08/17/2008 3:29:53 PM PDT by restornu (Here comes that feeling again my heart still yearn for what my mind wonÂ’t accept Investigator)
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To: DanielLongo
Thoughtful opposition will always be met with civility and discourse. The brand of “liars and bigots” found on FR will also be dealt with accordingly.

Oh, yeah, I can see that:

HERE

147 posted on 08/17/2008 3:31:00 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (1992...how many folks had heard of Bill Clinton? John McCain, Eric Cantor for your VP pick!)
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To: svcw

By the way do you mean a son of god or The Son of God?

******

Are you saying Jesus is not the Son God?

1 Jn. 5: 5, 9-13, 20
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
• • •
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
• • •
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

John 3: 16-18, 36
16 ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 ¶ He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

Luke 4: 3, 9, 41
3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
• • •
9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
• • •
41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Rom. 8: 3, 14, 19
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
• • •
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
• • •
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.


148 posted on 08/17/2008 3:35:33 PM PDT by restornu (Here comes that feeling again my heart still yearn for what my mind wonÂ’t accept Investigator)
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To: greyfoxx39

They have read through, that is why they are here, it’s time for the varsity team to give it a go. If they make the same failed arguments with as little more arrogance and authority they think they have a better shot.


149 posted on 08/17/2008 3:37:45 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Bigoted Neanderthal Evangelicals support Eric Cantor for VP. Shalom.)
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To: greyfoxx39

My point made perfectly. Thank you for supplying the link.


150 posted on 08/17/2008 3:38:42 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: greyfoxx39

Thoughtful opposition will always be met with civility and discourse.

The brand of “liars and bigots” found on FR will also be dealt with accordingly.

Oh, yeah, I can see that:

****

You forgot to include this greyfoxx39

I have long admired people like Chuck Colson and James Dobson. I am being wounded in the house of my friends and it saddens me.

1 posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 11:59:30 PM by DanielLongo
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151 posted on 08/17/2008 3:39:38 PM PDT by restornu (Here comes that feeling again my heart still yearn for what my mind wonÂ’t accept Investigator)
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To: ejonesie22

The Varsity team showed up? Sweet.


152 posted on 08/17/2008 3:42:32 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: DanielLongo
I have been researching it, indeed my field was American History for many years and I have some archaeological background as well. There is no, I repeat no physical evidence for the existence of any of the Nephites or other great civilizations exclusively mentioned in the BOM, no statues, no buildings or even building stones, no weapons not even shards of pottery. Any evidence claimed is readily and more easily explained using factual analysis, not fairy tales disguised as science. Occam's Razor at work.

At best the BOM is a clever mixing of several traditions and histories. Even a devout Mormon like Thomas Ferguson could find nothing, and he has not been alone in that, both archaeologically or in Genetic Science.

The DNA evidence is equally as thin, the idea of various human migrations to the new world is a continuing field of study, but any DNA links can be explained my simple migrations, and do not provide equal evidence of a massive civilization that should have numerous ruins and mentions in the oral histories of the Native American people.

Grasping at other cultures as proof is tacky, but expected. You should have snagged the Incans or Mayans, their ruins still stand, and you could lay claim to their "ancestors", the 12 Colonies of man from Battlestar Galactica. After all it is a modern fairy tale as well...

153 posted on 08/17/2008 3:57:44 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Bigoted Neanderthal Evangelicals support Eric Cantor for VP. Shalom.)
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To: DanielLongo

Yes, and I’ll keep it simple,use google. Find any non LDS source that says the Hopewell Indians were the Nephites. You aren’t too lazy to research are you?


154 posted on 08/17/2008 4:01:40 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Bigoted Neanderthal Evangelicals support Eric Cantor for VP. Shalom.)
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To: DanielLongo

Yes it is, more for the offering...


155 posted on 08/17/2008 4:03:38 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Bigoted Neanderthal Evangelicals support Eric Cantor for VP. Shalom.)
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To: Elsie; DanielLongo

Oh, you want some proof, huh?

How about this?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2044024/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2038427/posts

Unless gay clergy and fornication/non-marital sex are accepted practices of the true church of Christ, it looks like the two personages who told Joseph Smith that “Presbyterianism is not true” were indeed telling Joseph Smith the truth. That is unless you want to defend these activities as part of the true church of Christ.


156 posted on 08/17/2008 4:04:10 PM PDT by ComeUpHigher
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To: DanielLongo

Hey it was you that judged my heart.
Do not know why you decided to quote scriptures.


157 posted on 08/17/2008 4:04:16 PM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: restornu
Really do not know why it is so hard to answer a question.

I asked do you believe Jesus is a son of god or The Son of God?

What is the deal with the scripture the question is for you.

By the way who is Jesus?

158 posted on 08/17/2008 4:06:38 PM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: DanielLongo
Wow, that training runs deep. Is there an advanced graduate course in diversion, denial and obfuscation at BYU?

If there is only...

Oh never mind I hate pointing out the obvious when others are playing word games and think it's working...

Varsity team not what I expected...

Oh well maybe when I get back from my shop it will be better, my 8N is not running right.

159 posted on 08/17/2008 4:10:09 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Bigoted Neanderthal Evangelicals support Eric Cantor for VP. Shalom.)
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To: DanielLongo

Go team!


160 posted on 08/17/2008 4:11:49 PM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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