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Life On Gold Plates - (LDS) Open
http://lifeongoldplates.blogspot.com/2008/08/bushmans-introduction-to-joseph-smith.html ^ | August 14, 2008 | Richard Bushman

Posted on 08/15/2008 1:47:27 PM PDT by greyfoxx39

August 14, 2008

Bushman's Introduction to "Joseph Smith and His Critics" Seminar

The following is Richard Bushman's introduction to the 2008 summer seminar, “Joseph Smith and His Critics,” given July 29, 2008. I also have a poor mp3 recording of the paper and in the next week or so I plan on blogging any additions Bushman made in reading the paper to the group. For my thoughts on the seminar in general, see "Preliminary Thoughts on the 2008 Bushman Seminar," and "Follow-up Thoughts on the 2008 Bushman Seminar." For notes on the presentations themselves, see Juvenile Instructor's "Notes on the 2008 Bushman Seminar," parts one and two.

Introduction
Richard Bushman

Increasingly teachers and church leaders at all levels are approached by Latter-day Saints who have lost confidence in Joseph Smith and the basic miraculous events of church history. They doubt the First Vision, the Book of Mormon, many of Joseph’s revelations, and much besides. They fall into doubt after going on the Internet and finding shocking information about Joseph Smith based on documents and facts they had never heard before. A surprising number had not known about Joseph Smith’s plural wives. They are set back by differences in the various accounts of the First Vision. They find that Egyptologists do not translate the Abraham manuscripts the way Joseph Smith did, making it appear that the Book of Abraham was a fabrication. When they come across this information in a critical book or read it on one of the innumerable critical Internet sites, they feel as if they had been introduced to a Joseph Smith and a Church history they had never known before. They undergo an experience like viewing the famous picture of a beautiful woman who in a blink of an eye turns into an old hag. Everything changes. What are they to believe?

Often church leaders, parents, and friends, do not understand the force of this alternate view. Not knowing how to respond, they react defensively. They are inclined to dismiss all the evidence as anti-Mormon or of the devil. Stop reading these things if they upset you so much, the inquirer is told. Or go back to the familiar formula: scriptures, prayer, church attendance.

The troubled person may have been doing all of these things sincerely, perhaps even desperately. He or she feels the world is falling apart. Everything these inquirers put their trust in starts to crumble. They want guidance more than ever in their lives, but they don’t seem to get it. The facts that have been presented to them challenge almost everything they believe. People affected in this way may indeed stop praying; they don’t trust the old methods because they feel betrayed by the old system. Frequently they are furious. On their missions they fervently taught people about Joseph Smith without knowing any of these negative facts. Were they taken advantage of? Was the Church trying to fool them for its own purposes?
These are deeply disturbing questions. They shake up everything. Should I stay in the Church? Should I tell my family? Should I just shut up and try to get along? Who can help me?

At this point, these questioners go off in various directions. Some give up on the Church entirely. They find another religion or, more likely these days, abandon religion altogether. Without their familiar Mormon God, they are not sure there is any God at all. They become atheist or agnostic. Some feel the restrictions they grew up with no longer apply. The strength has been drained out of tithing, the Word of Wisdom, and chastity. They partly welcome the new freedom of their agnostic condition. Now they can do anything they please without fear of breaking the old Mormon rules. The results may not be happy for them or their families.

Others piece together a morality and a spiritual attitude that stops them from declining morally, but they are not in an easy place. When they go to church, , they are not comfortable. Sunday School classes and Sacrament meeting talks about Joseph Smith and the early church no longer ring true. How can these people believe these “fairy tales,” the inquirers ask. Those who have absorbed doses of negative material live in two minds: their old church mind which now seems naive and credulous, and their new enlightened mind with its forbidden knowledge learned on the internet and from critical books.

A friend who is in this position described the mindset of the disillusioned member this way:

“Due to the process of learning, which they have gone through, these [two-minded] LDS often no longer accept the church as the only true one (with the only true priesthood authority and the only valid sacred ordinances), but they see it as a Christian church, in which good, inspired programs are found as well as failure and error. They no longer consider inspiration, spiritual and physical healing, personal and global revelation limited to the LDS church. In this context, these saints may attend other churches, too, where they might have spiritual experiences as well. They interpret their old spiritual experiences differently, understanding them as testimonies from God for them personally, as a result of their search and efforts, but these testimonies don’t necessarily have to be seen as a confirmation that the LDS church is the only true one.

“Since the social relationships between them and other ward (or stake) members suffer (avoidance, silence, even mobbing) because of their status as heretics, which is usually known via gossip, and since the extent of active involvement and range of possible callings are reduced because of their nonconformity in various areas, there is a risk that they end up leaving the church after all, because they are simply ignored by the majority of the other members.”

He then offers a recommendation: 

“It is necessary that the church not only shows more support and openness to these ‘apostates’ but also teaches and advises all members, bishops, stake presidents etc., who usually don’t know how to deal with such a situation in terms of organizational and ecclesiastical questions and – out of insecurity – fail to treat the critical member with the necessary love and respect that even a normal stranger would receive.”

Those are the words of someone who has lost belief in many of the fundamentals and is working out a new relationship to the Church. Other shaken individuals recover their belief in the basic principles and events but are never quite the same as before. Their knowledge, although no longer toxic, gives them a new perspective. They tend to be more philosophic and less dogmatic about all the stories they once enjoyed. Here are some of the characteristics of people who have passed through this ordeal but managed to revive most of their old beliefs.

1. They often say they learned the Prophet was human. They don’t expect him to be a model of perfect deportment as they once thought. He may have taken a glass of wine from time to time, or scolded his associates, or even have made business errors. They see his virtues and believe in his revelations but don’t expect perfection.

2. They also don’t believe he was led by revelation in every detail. They see him as learning gradually to be a prophet and having to feel his way at times like most Church members. In between the revelations, he was left to himself to work out the methods of complying with the Lord’s commandments. Sometimes he had to experiment until he found the right way.

3. These newly revived Latter-day Saints also develop a more philosophical attitude toward history. They come to see (like professional historians) that facts can have many interpretations. Negative facts are not necessarily as damning as they appear at first sight. Put in another context along side other facts, they do not necessarily destroy Joseph Smith’s reputation.

4. Revived Latter-day Saints focus on the good things they derive from their faith–the community of believers, the comforts of the Holy Spirit, the orientation toward the large questions of life, contact with God, moral discipline, and many others. They don’t want to abandon these good things. Starting from that point of desired belief, they are willing to give Joseph Smith and the doctrine a favorable hearing. They may not be absolutely certain about every item, but they are inclined to see the good and the true in the Church.

At the heart of this turmoil is the question of trust. Disillusioned Latter-day Saints feel their trust has been betrayed. They don’t know whom to trust. They don’t dare trust the old feelings that once were so powerful, nor do they trust church leaders. They can only trust the new knowledge they have acquired. Those who come back to the Church are inclined to trust their old feelings. Their confidence in the good things they knew before is at least partially restored. But they sort out the goodness that seems still vital from the parts that now seem no longer tenable. Knowledge not only has given them a choice, it has compelled them to choose. They have to decide what they really believe. In the end, many are more stable and convinced than before. They feel better prepared to confront criticism openly, confident they can withstand it.

- - - -

The members of the seminar on “Joseph Smith and His Critics,” a group of Religious Education and CES faculty who met at BYU for six weeks in the summer of 2008, are among those who have known Latter-day Saints in this state of confusion and doubt. We have had many opportunities to talk to questioners about their problems and admit that we have often fallen short in our answers. We came together in hopes of learning to do better. Besides gathering information on a series of specific issues, we have discussed how best to deal with questioning Saints. What way of speaking is most likely to win their trust and convince them we have their best interests at heart?

We began by agreeing that criticisms of Joseph Smith should not be dismissed as foolish or purely evil. The negative attacks that disturb first-time readers are usually based on facts, not merely prejudiced fabrications. To play down the force of the criticism, we believe, only convinces the seekers that we do not understand. We appear to be sweeping trouble under the rug. They may have been devastated by a criticism; we must show that we understand why. Consequently, the seminar took as its first principle to state the negative argument as fully and accurately as we can. We try not to minimize the difficulty or prejudice the case against the critic. In no other way can we persuade the doubters that we understand the problem.

Secondly, we try to avoid dogmatic answers. Rather than replace the dogmatic negative attacks of the critics with our own dogmatic answers, we attempt to show that a more positive interpretation is possible. Critics often claim that Joseph’s sins were so egregious as to utterly disqualify him as a prophet. We can understand their viewpoint, but we think there is another side to the story. Rather than destroy the critics, we want to loosen their grip. In the long run, we believe this approach will persuade questioners more effectively than claims to certainty where none is possible. We believe in stating our own strong convictions about the church as a whole, but we do not to pretend to perfect knowledge about complex historical questions.

We know that airing criticisms troubles many Latter-day Saints. Like most Church teachers, the members of the seminar do not want to draw attention to questions that will only unsettle faithful members. But we also feel that silence is not the answer. The absence of instruction troubles questioners more than anything. They feel they have been betrayed because they came through their Church classes ignorant of the devastating information now a few clicks away on the internet. The gaps in their education leave them disillusioned and angry.

To counteract this lack of preparation, the seminar members have taken as our motto the scripture that begins: “As all have not faith, teach one another” (D&C 88:118). We are encouraged by the scriptural recognition that not all have faith, and by the appealing remedy, “teach one another.” For many questioners, loneliness is the heart of the problems. No one seems to understand. We are enjoined by this scripture to find these seekers and bring them into a fellowship of inquiry. We hope that our papers will help Church teachers create safe havens where questions may be asked and answers explored--where we can teach one another.
____________________________________________
Richard L. Bushman is a Professor Emeritus of History, Columbia University, the current holder of the Howard W. Hunter visiting professorship in Mormon studies at Claremont Graduate University, and author of the recent biography Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling

 


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KEYWORDS: lds; mormon
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To: DanielLongo
You may want to read sevenbak's post No. 59..."Why not, he is a renounced academic scholar teaching in one of the most prestigious universities in the world, and sharing incredibly insightful information about the very real, fallible, human being that Joseph Smith was"

I commented on how the hero of "Praise to the Man" has NOW become a "very real, fallible, human being" all of a sudden...and six months ago, I doubt very much the Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would have been endorsing and supporting Bushman in this effort and his recommendation “It is necessary that the church not only shows more support and openness to these ‘apostates’ but also teaches and advises all members, bishops, stake presidents etc., who usually don’t know how to deal with such a situation in terms of organizational and ecclesiastical questions and – out of insecurity – fail to treat the critical member with the necessary love and respect that even a normal stranger would receive.” .

121 posted on 08/17/2008 2:47:56 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (1992...how many folks had heard of Bill Clinton? John McCain, Eric Cantor for your VP pick!)
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To: svcw
No, like HaplogroupX and the Hopewell Indians. Are you on a respirator?
122 posted on 08/17/2008 2:48:03 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: restornu
Coming up empty - huh?

By the way you still have not answered the question: Who is Jesus?

123 posted on 08/17/2008 2:48:03 PM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: restornu

huh?


124 posted on 08/17/2008 2:48:45 PM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: DanielLongo

Take it away Imams.


125 posted on 08/17/2008 2:49:41 PM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: greyfoxx39

What are you talking about? You are making no sense.


126 posted on 08/17/2008 2:50:14 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: restornu
Questions? Weren't you the one complaining about "mind-reading" just a little earlier?

Here

127 posted on 08/17/2008 2:50:40 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (1992...how many folks had heard of Bill Clinton? John McCain, Eric Cantor for your VP pick!)
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To: greyfoxx39

...because you bring up the same unfounded, lame comments again and again.


128 posted on 08/17/2008 2:51:33 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: DanielLongo

Oops sorry to confuse you it was in response to your post 94 about priestcraft.
(And that would be a slam again Christianity by the way.)


129 posted on 08/17/2008 2:54:42 PM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: Zakeet
... and Dr. Bushman's opinions carry a lot of weight!

If you are an academic, I suppose it does. I am not an academic, and although I have found many of his speeches and writings insightful, they do not shape my relationship with Jesus Christ or my testimony of the prophetic mission of Joseph Smith. This excerpt has been forwarded as something of Church authority. He is NO Church authority and to his credit does not claim to be. He is a man with an opinion. You guys have determined it carries a lot of weight with you. If so, you should give heed to the rest of his testimony.

130 posted on 08/17/2008 2:57:15 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: DanielLongo
Ldsers have never bashed Christians - oh way funny ... Those of us from Missouri like to say, "show me".

Ask and ye shall receive!

While some current church leaders portray the LDS Church as Christian, the church actually has a long history of condemning Christianity. The church has also stated repeatedly that no one can be saved without the permission of Joseph Smith. The church has even suggested that Islam is better than Christianity. Consider the following:

THE MORMON CHURCH CONDEMNS CHRISTIANS

And the angel of God said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. – Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10-11

My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong) – and which I should join. … I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." He again forbade me to join with any of themProphet Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith History 1:18-20

Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167

The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171

Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176

Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127

Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225

What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225

The Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable … but with the Bible it was not and is not so … it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was. – Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13

In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ." No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7

SALVATION IS NOT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, BUT JOSEPH SMITH

If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by the Prophet Joseph Smith; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him.Apostle George Q. Cannon, 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142

[There is] no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of GodProphet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91

I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God … If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass.Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

ISLAM IS BETTER THAN CHRISTIANITY

The Greek and Roman Churches, which have been called Christian, and which take the name of Christians as a cloak, have worshipped innumerable idols. On this account, on the simple subject of the Deity and His worship, if nothing more, I should rather incline, of the two, after all my early traditions, education, and prejudices, to the side of Mahomet, for on this point he is on the side of truth, and the Christian world on the side of idolatry and heathenism. – Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.38

Now, if we take Mahometanism during those dark ages, and the corruptions that are so universally prevalent over the earth, and the idolatrous systems of religion, falsely called Christianity, and weigh them in a balance; with all my education in favor of Christian nations and Christian powers, and Christian institutions, so called, with all my prejudices of early youth, and habits of thought and reading, my rational faculties would compel me to admit that the Mahometan history and Mahometan doctrine was a standard raised against the most corrupt and abominable idolatry that over perverted our earth, found in the creeds and worship of ChristiansApostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.40

Though Mahometan institutions are corrupt enough, and need reforming by the Gospel, I am inclined to think, upon the whole, leaving out the corruptions of men in high places among them, that they have better morals and better institutions than many Christian nations; and in many localities there have been high standards of morals. So far as that one point is concerned, of worshipping the one true God under the name of Mahometanism, together with many moral precepts, and in war only acting on the defensive, I think they have exceeded in righteousness and truthfulness of religion, the idolatrous and corrupt church that has borne the name of Christianity. – Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.41

You can find many more similar quotes of Mormon leaders slamming Christians HERE.

131 posted on 08/17/2008 2:57:46 PM PDT by Zakeet (Crime wouldn't pay if the government ran it)
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To: DanielLongo; sevenbak
I know this is confusing but the title is “Joseph Smith and His Critics,”

A blogger who site is named "LifeOnaPlate" called Bushman's talk "Life On Gold Plates" which I don't think was used in the FAIR Conference talk.

We really don't have the word for word of Bro Bushman's Talk only what the Blogger has given us.

*****

Bushman's Introduction to "Joseph Smith and His Critics" Seminar

The following is Richard Bushman's introduction to the 2008 summer seminar, “Joseph Smith and His Critics,” given July 29, 2008. I also have a poor mp3 recording of the paper and in the next week or so I plan on blogging any additions Bushman made in reading the paper to the group.

For my thoughts on the seminar in general, see "Preliminary Thoughts on the 2008 Bushman Seminar," and "Follow-up Thoughts on the 2008 Bushman Seminar."

For notes on the presentations themselves, see Juvenile Instructor's "Notes on the 2008 Bushman Seminar," parts one and two.

132 posted on 08/17/2008 2:58:34 PM PDT by restornu (Here comes that feeling again my heart still yearn for what my mind wonÂ’t accept Investigator)
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To: Zakeet
How do either of those comments constitute expressing glee?

I supposed I lumped you in with the rest of the familiar anti Mormon crowd posting on this thread. If I have done so in error, then that comment was certainly misdirected.

133 posted on 08/17/2008 2:58:42 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: svcw
We may have common ground here. I have always supported the Gospel of Christianity. I have also aggressively defended it against professed Christians. I think this is what you are saying.
134 posted on 08/17/2008 3:01:35 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: svcw

Then you are not a Christian after all? What is your particular belief?


135 posted on 08/17/2008 3:02:41 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: greyfoxx39
Questions? Weren't you the one complaining about "mind-reading" just a little earlier?

It is a question?

Which should be asked when it seems like one is trying to imply or put words in another mouth!

DL asked a question to clarify the statement!

136 posted on 08/17/2008 3:04:33 PM PDT by restornu (Here comes that feeling again my heart still yearn for what my mind wonÂ’t accept Investigator)
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To: DanielLongo

wow I do know that ldsers believe they will become god, I guess you have already made “it” so to speak to know my heart.
That by the way is judgment, claim to know the condition of someone’s heart.


137 posted on 08/17/2008 3:05:19 PM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Yes, he is saying that those called to leadership positions in the Church and members at large should be ready to respond to the questions of apostates (as we would with a total stranger) rather than be insecure about doing so merely because they are “apostate”. I see nothing wrong with this thinking and I am sure the Church leadership would not either. I still fail to see whatever point it is you are trying to draw from this article. I think you are reaching for something that isn’t there. Typical.


138 posted on 08/17/2008 3:07:29 PM PDT by DanielLongo
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To: Zakeet; DanielLongo

You can find many more similar quotes of Mormon leaders slamming Christians ~ Zakeet

LOL and the past ten years or so on FR the Chirstians have been like little lamps towards the LDS, right!

There are many organization out there saying posting night and day the evils of Mormonism!

Yet if the LDS has an apologist site they are the bullies!:)


139 posted on 08/17/2008 3:11:33 PM PDT by restornu (Here comes that feeling again my heart still yearn for what my mind wonÂ’t accept Investigator)
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To: DanielLongo
I still fail to see whatever point it is you are trying to draw from this article.

I will repeat my comment in reply no. 1 at the beginning of this article: "This seems to refute the oft-repeated message that all those who leave the LDS church have done so because they are, in the words of President Monson, "the less active, the offended, the critical, the transgressor".

We have discussed many of these points here, and also these: “Since the social relationships between them and other ward (or stake) members suffer (avoidance, silence, even mobbing) because of their status as heretics, which is usually known via gossip, and since the extent of active involvement and range of possible callings are reduced because of their nonconformity in various areas, there is a risk that they end up leaving the church after all, because they are simply ignored by the majority of the other members.”

Perhaps readers here on FR who have been bombarded by accusations that those posting here in opposition to mormon proselytizing are "liars and bigots", will learn differently from this article.

140 posted on 08/17/2008 3:14:48 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (1992...how many folks had heard of Bill Clinton? John McCain, Eric Cantor for your VP pick!)
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