Posted on 10/26/2007 9:00:59 PM PDT by topcat54
Replacement theology has become dispensationalism's latest prophetic boogeyman. If you want to end a debate over eschatology, just charge your opponent with holding to replacement theology. What is “replacement theology,” sometimes called “supersessionism,” and why do dispensationalists accuse non-dispensationalists of holding it? Here’s a typical dispensational definition:
Replacement Theology: a theological perspective that teaches that the Jews have been rejected by God and are no longer God’s Chosen People. Those who hold to this view disavow any ethnic future for the Jewish people in connection with the biblical covenants, believing that their spiritual destiny is either to perish or become a part of the new religion that superseded Judaism (whether Christianity or Islam).1
“Replacement theology” is dispensationalism’s trump card in any debate over eschatology because it implies anti-semitism. Hal Lindsey attempted to use this card in his poorly researched and argued The Road to Holocaust.2 He wove an innovative tale implying that anyone who is not a dispensationalist carries the seeds of anti-semitism within his or her prophetic system. This would mean that every Christian prior to 1830 would have been theologically anti-semitic although not personally anti-semtic.
As Peter Leithart and I point out in The Legacy of Hatred Continues,3 it’s dispensationalists who hold to a form of replacement theology since they believe that Israel does not have any prophetic significance this side of the rapture! Prior to the rapture, in terms of dispensational logic, the Church has replaced Israel. This is unquestionably true since God’s prophetic plan for Israel has been postponed until the prophetic time clock starts ticking again at the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week which starts only after the Church is taken to heaven in the so-called rapture. Until then, God is dealing redemptively with the Church. Am I making this up? Consider the following by dispensationalist E. Schuyler English:
An intercalary4 period of history, after Christ’s death and resurrection and the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, has intervened. This is the present age, the Church age. . . . During this time God has not been dealing with Israel nationally, for they have been blinded concerning God’s mercy in Christ. . . . However, God will again deal with Israel as a nation. This will be in Daniel’s seventieth week, a seven-year period yet to come.5
According to English and every other dispensationalist, the Church has replaced Israel until the rapture. The unfulfilled promises made to Israel are not fulfilled until after the Church is taken off the earth. Thomas Ice, one of dispensationalism’s rising stars, admits that the Church replaces Israel this side of the rapture: “We dispensationalists believe that the church has superseded Israel during the current church age, but God has a future time in which He will restore national Israel ‘as the institution for the administration of divine blessings to the world.’”6
Dispensationalists claim that their particular brand of eschatology is the only prophetic system that gives Israel her proper place in redemptive history. This is an odd thing to argue since two-thirds of the Jews will be slaughtered during the post-rapture tribulation, and the world will be nearly destroyed. Charles Ryrie writes in his book The Best is Yet to Come that during this post-rapture period Israel will undergo “the worst bloodbath in Jewish history.”7 The book’s title doesn’t seem to very appropriate considering that during this period of time most of the Jews will die! John Walvoord follows a similar line of argument: “Israel is destined to have a particular time of suffering which will eclipse any thing that it has known in the past. . . . [T]he people of Israel . . . are placing themselves within the vortex of this future whirlwind which will destroy the majority of those living in the land of Palestine.”8 Arnold Fruchtenbaum states that during the Great Tribulation “Israel will suffer tremendous persecution (Matthew 24:15–28; Revelation 12:1–17). As a result of this persecution of the Jewish people, two-thirds are going to be killed.”9
During the time when Israel seems to be at peace with the world, she is really under the domination of the antichrist who will turn on her at the mid-point in the seven-year period. Israel waits more than 2000 years for the promises finally to be fulfilled, and before it happens, two-thirds of them are wiped out. Those who are charged with holding a “replacement theology viewpoint” believe in no inevitable future Jewish bloodbath. In fact, we believe that the Jews will inevitably embrace Jesus as the Messiah this side of the Second Coming. The fulfillment of Zechariah 13:8 is a past event. It may have had its fulfillment in the events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Contrary to dispensationalism’s interpretation of the Olivet Discourse, Jesus' disciples warned the Jewish nation for nearly forty years about the impending judgment (Matt. 3:7; 21:42–46; 22:1–14; 24:15–22). Those who believed Jesus’ words of warning were delivered “from the wrath to come” (1 Thess. 1:10). Those who continued to reject Jesus as the promised Messiah, even though they had been warned for a generation (Matt. 24:34), “wrath has come upon them to the utmost” (1 Thess. 2:16; cf. 1 Thess. 5:1–11; 2 Pet. 3:10–13).
Before critics of replacement theology throw stones, they need to take a look at their own prophetic system and see its many lapses in theology and logic.
Read Part Two of this article...
2. Hal Lindsey, The Road to Holocaust (New York: Bantam Books, 1989). The address for Bantam Books is 666 Fifth Avenue, New York, New York.
3. Gary DeMar and Peter J. Leithart, The Legacy of Hatred Continues: A Response to Hal Lindsey’s The Road to Holocaust (Powder Springs, GA: American Vision, 1989).
4. Inserted into the calendar.
5. E. Schuyler English, A Companion to the New Scofield Reference Bible (New York: Oxford University Press, 1972), 135.
6. Thomas Ice, “The Israel of God,” The Thomas Ice Collection: www.raptureready.com/featured/TheIsraelOfGod.html#_edn3
7. Charles C. Ryrie, The Best is Yet to Come (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1981), 86.
8. John F. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1962), 107, 113. Emphasis added.
9. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, “The Little Apocalypse of Zechariah,” The End Times Controversy: The Second Coming Under Attack, eds. Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 2003), 262.
I'm a mere boot polisher -- you'll have to talk to the emperor about that.
You never did answer my question, did it make a difference to the translators of the Septuagint when they used the feminine Greek word for "clouds"? Your belaboring a point that makes no difference in the Bible, only in the world of the hyperliteralists.
Now, where does it say in the Old Testament that they will “see the Lord riding on a swift cloud”?
Hyperliteralism will not help you see the forest for the trees.
They did not see him coming in 70 A.D, so what is the point of telling them something they won’t see or recognize?
So what you are saying is that Jesus was lying to the high priest when He said to him " you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven", or you just don’t care to take His words "literally".
Now, where in the context of Daniel 7 is there mention of the judgment of “unbelieving Israel”?
That is the way Jesus applies it in His conversation with the high priest in Matt 26. Jesus is finishing the picture He started to paint in Daniel 7. All the prophets testify about Him.
Which is more believable,
Speaking of believable, I notice you did not answer my question about Rev. 14:14. If you ignore the places that make you uncomfortable, you will never figure out what is believable and what isn’t.
“So what you are saying is that Jesus was lying to the high priest when He said to him “ you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven”, or you just don’t care to take His words “literally”.
Here is where they will see Him coming in His majesty and glory and there will be no mistaking Him for the paper tiger, Rome,
Rev. 20:11-15, “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Yet all of humanity does not become Christian. The final rebellion occurs at the end of the 1,000 yrs.
You are not answering any of my questions. I suspect they are making you uncomfortable since they expose all the weaknesses in your position.
“You are not answering any of my questions. I suspect they are making you uncomfortable since they expose all the weaknesses in your position.”
I’ll go slow and try to make this easy for you. No He did not lie “when He said to him “ you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven”
Here is the fulfillment of the promise that they will see Him coming in His majesty and glory and there will be no mistaking Him for the paper tiger, Rome,
Rev. 20:11-15, “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
There, so even the high priest who died before his return will literally, hyperliterally, see Him in all of his majesty just as Jesus said he would. You see, Jesus keeps His promises, literally, hyperliterally!
What is your point? You now have stated that clouds in the Daniel 7 passage does not mean “armies” but “Jesus’ use of the phrase “coming in clouds” comes from the OT and is a symbolic phrase that can be used to describe God’s coming in temporal judgment against a nation”. I do not disagree with that. Nor do I disagree that poetic imagery is used in Revelation.
Yet all of humanity does not become Christian. The final rebellion occurs at the end of the 1,000 yrs.
And people are still being born, living, and dying in the millennium. Sin is not finally dealt with until the white throne judgment. In what sense is the curse removed in the futurists’ millennium?
I think you know my point. There are other "cloud" images that do not require us to think of the physical second coming. In fact in Rev. 14 we see a cloud judgment by the son of man against the earth using the image of a sickle.
So "clouds" does not always refer to the physical atmospheric phenomena. I think we have a good start here.
I now take it you are affirming that the cloud imagery is appropriate for AD70, and that when Jesus was speaking to the high priest and said "you will see" He meant the high priest would see these things in the events of AD70.
How do you now decide if Matthew 24 is referring to the same sort of cloud imagery we find in the OT prophecies?
I see how you are twisting things here. The high priest was alive and had two functioning eyes when Jesus spoke to him and said, "you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven". But you are free to reinterpret His words and apply them symbolically/spiritually to the final white throne judgment, which is not a cloud coming at all, and has no such language.
BTW, the millions of unbelieving Jews who died in Jerusalem during the "days of vengeance" did not consider Rome a paper tiger. Nor did the disciples who fled when they saw the abomination of desolation (Jerusalem surrounded by armies).
***BTW, the millions of unbelieving Jews who died in Jerusalem during the “days of vengeance” did not consider Rome a paper tiger. Nor did the disciples who fled when they saw the abomination of desolation (Jerusalem surrounded by armies).***
Neither did any of the Jews who felt any of the armies that the Lord sent against her. I have noticed that the Dispensationalists here focus an inordinate amount of attention to what all agree are the more difficult prophecies and tend to ignore what are the absurdely simple ones.
I notice that, after someone cited Matthew 13 and I pointed out some glaring contradictions with Dispensational eschatology, not a further word was said. I also notice that the “day” of the Lord suddenly had to literally become exactly 1000 years to make 2 Peter 3 fit.
So then Luke was lying here:
"9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.[Acts 1]
He was taken up in a cloud and would return in like manner -- in the clouds, just like Mt 24:30 says -- at His second coming.
I now take it you are affirming that the cloud imagery is appropriate for AD70, and that when Jesus was speaking to the high priest and said "you will see" He meant the high priest would see these things in the events of AD70.
But as you said, the high priest would be long past dead, right. However, I guarantee you that in his "hereafter", the high priest was permitted to see Jesus sitting on the right hand of His Father, and will be brought forth to witness His second coming -- as promised.
“BTW, the millions of unbelieving Jews who died in Jerusalem during the “days of vengeance” did not consider Rome a paper tiger. Nor did the disciples who fled when they saw the abomination of desolation (Jerusalem surrounded by armies)”
“I now take it you are affirming that the cloud imagery is appropriate for AD70,”
There was no “clouds of heaven” at the destruction of Jerusalem in fulfillment of what Jesus told the high priest. It is a preterist fantasy to avoid the obvious scripture of the last days. Now you are saying Jesus did not mean what he said to the high priest, he was only speaking figuratively about the high priest actually seeing him.
Did the high priest see Jesus in 70 A.D.? Did he or any person alive in 70 A.D. know that what they saw in the Roman army was Jesus exercising judgment on unbelieving Israel? There is no scriptural testimony to that event by any apostle or writer. No on says Jesus came again at that time.
“the final white throne judgment, which is not a cloud coming at all, and has no such language.”
Absolutely amazing. Here, let me repeat what you have previously written, “Jesus’ use of the phrase “coming in clouds” comes from the OT and is a symbolic phrase that can be used to describe God’s coming in temporal judgment against a nation”. Why would you need the metaphor when you are describing the actual seat of power and judgment.
***The answers to these questions constitute the only significant difference between the amillennial and the postmillennial positions. In reality, amillennialism is only a type of pessimistic postmillennialism. The amillennialist does not believe that the world as a whole will be discipled. They believe a few from every tribe and nation will be saved, but do not believe that the power of the gospel will result in a “golden age” in history...”***
But, this is precisely the Edenesque utopia to which I referred earlier. There is simply some variation into exactly what form this “golden age” will take among postmillennialists. You cited Acts 19 to demonstrate that “mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.” I have no problem with that verse. I was simply pointing out that this prevailing was done by the spread of the gospel on the ground that was wet with the blood of the saints. How, precisely, does a post-mill reconcile such facts with a “golden age,” especially considering that MOST Postmills believe that this golden age will result in bringing all the nations under God’s law?
If the second coming was fulfilled in 70 AD why hasn't Satan been bound?
***If the second coming was fulfilled in 70 AD why hasn’t Satan been bound?***
Let me clarify 2 things:
#1. None of the Preterist here believe that THE second coming was fulfilled in 70AD. At least, how the Dispensationalists understand it phrase. There are many who do believe that there was a coming in judgment on the nation of Israel and on Jerusalem, but there are not HERE any who believe that the events in 70AD completed ALL prophecy in the Bible.
#2. It is a simple gospel matter that Satan has been bound, and has always been bound in one form or fashion. It is just that he is NOT bound, nor will ever be bound, in the sense that Premillennialists of all stripes claim that he will be bound during the Mellinnial reign of Christ.
This is gospel: the strongman has been bound and the Lord is currently plundering his house.
Who (besides Uncle Chip) said the second coming was fulfilled in AD70? Not I.
Besides, the second coming comes at the end of the "thousand years" not the beginning, at least according to the amil/postmil positions.
Oh my -- another new definition for the "abomination". So now the "holy place" [Mt 24:15] is the hills and valleys outside of Jerusalem, not Jerusalem or the temple??? and the Roman armies are "the abomination" and not Cesar Nero???
Don't you just love that preterist "exegesis" or whatever they call it???
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