You came in here in the attack mode.
Back off!
BigMack
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Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
What's sad and funny all at the same time is that you honestly believe this. And by "this" I don't mean the "we follow Christ" part. I mean the fact that you think that it was slander of Cindy to point out her opinion of your theological stance.
First, I never asked Vince to help me search for the truth of Christ.
Second, Just because he rejects my beliefs does not mean he cannot have a head knowledge understanding of them and discuss it with me. I was not searching for the truth of Christ in this mornings dicussion. We were attempting to put into words our thoughts on God's sovereignty, foreknowledge, and predestination. It was not....gasp, the shame of it....a biblical discussion.
Third, IMO, Mom, you are doing nothing but trying to drive a wedge between friends. Vince has always been respectful and kind even during our heated disagreements. He knows I believe him to be lost, but remains kind and respectful. I am proud that he considers me a friend.
You on the other hand. Altho, I believe you are saved, you are neither kind or respectful not only to the lost but to the saved as well. I was always skeptical of your "kindness" in the past since the last time you came here spouting this sortf crap, you have proved my instincts about you right. You're going back on my ignore list.
Becky
Grace is favor. Please give me scriptures that say that God gives saving grace to all men (as opposed to the general grace on all creation )
"Set apart" is tied to the idea of "holy" as the greek word temenos reflects in its sacred usage. And to the Arminian, it is God that makes us Holy as a result of our faith in Christ. So, the Arminian can say a hearty "amen" to everything you posted without believing a whit in predestination.
Nope I do not think an Arminian can say Amen to the sovereignty of God .
Notice who is the god in your last statement. God gives grace BECAUSE the man earned it by his wise choices . God owes it to men to do that it seems ,God is mans debtor.
Man acts correctly and gets saved...how is that grace (God's UNMERITED FAVOR) . This sounds merited to me .
Do you think that God has free will?
You really have a hard time of even conceiving of a logical point of view other than your own. This is exactly what I'm not saying. God does not have to run around and keep reconfiguring systems and rewriting virus software and checking the firewall. That is exactly my point. He is SOOOO sovereign that His will is worked out in the course of human history DESPITE our free will. And, that, my dear, is real sovereignty.
Terms like being kept on a "short string " indicate an unwillingness to be under the authority of God . You know some of us count it as an honor to be used of God for His purpose, we do not resent His authority, we welcome it.
While I, as a Christian, do welcome being on a short leash with God, the unbeliever does not. And yet God's will is still accomplished even in spite of their unrighteousness. How is it that you can take every single statement of an Arminian in it's worst possible way? Did it take a while to learn to do that or did it happen overnight? I don't say that as a light zinger, I ask it as an honest question. From someone saying "do you like horses" to an analogical use of "short leash" you are always ready to pounce with your uber-righteousness. It does get a bit tiresome. No doubt, you will take this post as an example of the shortcomings of my theology and lifestyle, not to mention my bad fashion sense.
Um.....in the verse we were discussing? Perhaps you didn't read it. It's still in my Bible last time I checked.
Which is what my post was about. But reading comprehension isn't everyone's bag.
Some more successfully than others. If I had to choose, I'd rather be funny than spell correctly.
When God makes a covenant with humanity and offers grace as a gift, not based upon works, but upon simple acceptance of the covenant, it is not a "wise choice" that the human has made. It is simply a response to the drawing of the Holy Spirit. You cannot understand this because you cannot see anything but Calvinism. Having an unfalsifiable position is not a particular point of strength, not matter how appealing it first appears.
Lets look at what she said
.I don't mean this in a bad way but I see no difference in you putting your faith in the organized spritual leading of Mr. Calvin than Dave would from his pope. I'm one of the rebellious I guess that doesn't put my faith in man because they are only human and can fail you, even if unintentional.
I had already posted a link about Primitive baptists being the first "Calvinists" hundreds of years before Calvin
This was simply an Ad hominem attack , completely ignoring what I have said and posted.
Some people are more sensitive to the Gospel, some are in a position to be drawn more, some just do it. To attempt to answer your question is to apply a macro view to billions of micro-decisions which are acted out for billions of different reasons. I understand that you have the magic bullet for this question. You should try to understand that I do not require a magic bullet for this question.
Yes, it went beyond what you have posted to interpret what you have posted in a certain way. Which is what you do in every single post you make. Which is what all of us do. You could have refuted her point or ignored it. Instead you chose to take offense at it when you make the same inferences in others people posts time after time. But, the obvious difference is that you're right and they're wrong. Which is a fabulous defense for the convinced.
Who placed within man his preferences ? I am speaking of the natural man. This is not a discussion on sanctification , it is a discussion on how the unsaved come to Christ.
To which you answered
Which is what my post was about. But reading comprehension isn't everyone's bag.
Your sarcasm would be funny if you read what you wrote with understanding
Unless you are CURRENTLY UNSAVED then this makes no sense
Well, I was gonna go sarcastic, but instead....
I would first change the verb to "who is placing your preferences in to you" as I believe that I am still being sanctified though I have already been declared righteous in God's sight.
And it is the work of the Holy Spirit in me which is giving me those preferences as I crucify the flesh daily. And He (the Holy Spirit) is placing those preferences in me as a natural follow of my acceptance of the gift of grace which He freely offers to whosoever will. And whosoever really means "whosoever." It's quite a radical doctrine, I know, but I'm particularly enamored with it.
This is about a saved man, not an unsaved man (I do assume you are saved???) The Holy Spirit does not indwell the unsaved. That was not the question. One more time for those that find what I write not understandable
I am asking WHO PLACED THE PREFERECNCE IN THE UNSAVED ? WHO PLACED THE PREFERENCES IN THE ONE YEAR OLD NEXT DOOR ? Is that clearer ??
Why do some "whosoevers "come and others not? We say it was because the Father draws them . That the Holy Spirit quickened them and restored the will that was in bondage because of the fall ...and you say ???
This stream of the argument in no way detracts from the fact that Paul makes a very clear statement that reprobate humans can do what is good and in line with God's will.
Where is this taught ?
You came in here in the attack mode.
Back off!
BigMack
Ahhh...
Yes, yes it does. :o)
Why, thank you David. You are a perspicacious man. And I say that with complete objectivity. ;o)
Why are some people more sensitive to the gospel than others ? What is the difference?..I am not interested in a discussion on micro or maco anything. What does God say in His word?
Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Jhn 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Why do some hear and are some drawn and not others?
The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen?
If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is couching at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it. (Genesis 4:6-7)
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