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Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Just reading some of the Mac v. Windows threads on FR, one would think that is indeed the case, Mack. ;o)
He makes this point to show that the righteousness of God is revealed to all. That God's natural revelation makes itself known even in the actions of the wicked heathen. All this is a subset of the Law's insufficiency to bring us into right relationship with God. This stream of the argument in no way detracts from the fact that Paul makes a very clear statement that reprobate humans can do what is good and in line with God's will. And further, lest someone begin with shouts of "Pelagius," that all these good works are completely insufficient to bring one into right relationship with God. You will, of course, want to talk about verses which occur after this verse and before chapitre onze. That's the difficulty of having a center to your doctrine, it necessarily excludes other verses for the sake of the grid.
Wouldn't that be considered a graven image? ;o)
Well, I was gonna go sarcastic, but instead....
I would first change the verb to "who is placing your preferences in to you" as I believe that I am still being sanctified though I have already been declared righteous in God's sight. And it is the work of the Holy Spirit in me which is giving me those preferences as I crucify the flesh daily. And He (the Holy Spirit) is placing those preferences in me as a natural follow of my acceptance of the gift of grace which He freely offers to whosoever will. And whosoever really means "whosoever." It's quite a radical doctrine, I know, but I'm particularly enamored with it.
Favor is often a translation for the word "grace." God's grace, readily available to all, is indeed a comfort for believers everywhere.
All who are redeemed with the blood of his Son, he has set apart for himself.
"Set apart" is tied to the idea of "holy" as the greek word temenos reflects in its sacred usage. And to the Arminian, it is God that makes us Holy as a result of our faith in Christ. So, the Arminian can say a hearty "amen" to everything you posted without believing a whit in predestination.
You blow this off like it was nothing to gloss over your behavior on this thread, you have been mean and nasty to just about everyone on here and I don't mean the giving out of the gospel or the teachings of the bible if folks can't handle that its their problem, but I'm sure you will twist that to mean what ever you want it to mean.
I don't give a damn what you think about me, I'm talking about you as a person so full of pride and meanness using the Bible and Gods word to cover up for your nasty behavior, and thats exactly what you are doing and I rebuke you and ask you to ask God for forgiveness of your behavior here.
BigMack
I notice you skipped the first two questions. Though your answer is implicit in the answer to the final question.
Thank you for your honest post. I can accept this very easily. In fact, it is easier to accept than the non-stop propositional logic which we see spouted (from myself included) in our vain attempts to define the Almighty and how He acts. In the end, there are things about God which cannot be known, for He is completely and completely Immanent. May God bless you.
We do not have different Gods, unless you want to join Cindy in telling us our god is Calvin
Are you saying that you have a belief that God has to run around and keep re-fixing and configuring things that in the end the prophecy will come true??? God hopes things will turn out for sure.
You know when I read a comment like above I realize how deep the rebellion against the authority of God is. Terms like being kept on a "short string " indicate an unwillingness to be under the authority of God . You know some of us count it as an honor to be used of God for His purpose, we do not resent His authority, we welcome it. That is what Jesus being Lord means .
There is an atheist poem about man being the captain of his own ship. I want the one that created the waters steering the ship.
Psa 37:23 The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. (is that the same as being a puppet on a short string?)
Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man [is] not in himself: [it is] not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Psa 40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, [and] established my goings.
1Sa 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.
Harley made a very good post affirming this same sentiment (at least in the main). Good stuff, malakhi.
One of the more impressive c/p emeses I've seen.
I agree here. Could you agree that it goes deeper than this ?
This stream of the argument in no way detracts from the fact that Paul makes a very clear statement that reprobate humans can do what is good and in line with God's will.
Where ? Where does Paul teach that ?
And further, lest someone begin with shouts of "Pelagius," that all these good works are completely insufficient to bring one into right relationship with God
Well I do not know about Pelagius , but can you show me where it says in the scripture that an unsaved man can do anything to please God?
That's the difficulty of having a center to your doctrine, it necessarily excludes other verses for the sake of the grid.
So then give me scriptures that say that man can do anything that pleases God before He is saved. That is a hinge , because if unsaved men can not do anything that pleases God they certainly can not come to salvation because that would please God .
Exactly. And that is why it is silly of us to talk about "does God act outside His nature?" For whatever God does is according to His nature, not according to our theological cubbyholes into which we have wished him.
Isn't there a cream or ointment for hyprocites? Or do you need an antibiotic?
That is not the question.It has never been the question in our discussion . Who placed within man his preferences ? I am speaking of the natural man. This is not a discussion on sanctification , it is a discussion on how the unsaved come to Christ.
Do you deny that your creation was by the hand of God and that He made you exactly as He chose to?
.And it is the work of the Holy Spirit in me which is giving me those preferences as I crucify the flesh daily. And He (the Holy Spirit) is placing those preferences in me as a natural follow of my acceptance of the gift of grace which He freely offers to whosoever will. And whosoever really means "whosoever." It's quite a radical doctrine, I know, but I'm particularly enamored with it.
Completely off the point . I am asking why does one man choose to come to Christ and another hearing the exact same gospel under exactly the same circumstances , walk out to get a beer and never look back? Why does on man desire God and another man desire the flesh ?
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