The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

AP ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[malakhi]

#892...

Expelled Church Members Reinstated by Court Order (Church Rights Alert)

[RochesterFan]

You didn't answer my question. In fact, you re-stated it. I want you to answer it. What about the nations God used to judge Israel? On what basis did He later judge them? What is sin? If men do what God wants, how can this be wrong?

Zuck, R. B., Merrill, E. H., & Bock, D. L., A Biblical theology of the Old Testament, Moody Press state it more succinctly than I can

Though the Lord would use Assyria as His instrument of judgment against His people and several of the surrounding nations, He would eventually punish this proud empire (10:5–34; 14:24–25; 30:27–33; 31:4–9). The Assyrian king was nothing but a club in the hand of the Lord, but he arrogantly taunted Jerusalem, suggesting the Lord was unable to deliver His people from the powerful Assyrian army (10:5–14, 32; 36:4–20; 37:9–13, 24–25). Sennacherib’s speeches indicate his belief that he was the sovereign ruler of the world before whom none of the gods of the petty western states could stand (cf. 36:18–20; 37:11–13). The Lord compared this proud king to a tool or weapon trying to brandish its user. Once the Lord had used the Assyrians to complete “his work against Mount Zion” (cf. 10:12; 28:21), He would direct His judgment against them.

As with the other cases, it is the attitude of their hearts

[CindyDawg]

I take that to indicate that there are none that you feel competent to support in a debate. Cindy , that is because that is not whet the scriptures teach. This is not about arguing , this is about being able to defend what you believe . 1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: It may help if you read the words in black too...it is the whole council of God is inspired and Paul had alot to say on this subject

I told you where to find it. Read what Jesus said. I'm not going to give you a specific verse you can take out of context to cut and paste a canned argument. I have previously told you that I didn't wish to discuss C vs A anymore. Others know the verses I'm talking about. I FMed (gasp) I agree all the Bible important but reading the direct quotes from Jesus an extra comfort for me. Kind of like some with psalms.

[CindyDawg]

Do you like the Bible? Or is the discussion of it interrupting important horse talk ??...

You don't like horses? Jesus has a horse.

[CindyDawg]

Out of all of us here I never expected you would be the one to go to the top of their list. lol. You bad boy:')

[RnMomof7]

I hope so, but I'm not nearly so sure of myself as you are of you. I do understand that putting "according to my gospel" in bold does not change the fact that Paul very plainly writes that the pagans show what God's laws require when they INSTINCTIVELY do what the law requires of them. I win. I bolded and capsed mine.

But why does he make this point? Romans is a polemic book, Paul is teaching Christian doctrine. I agree with the above , but how do you see it as applied to Christian doctrine. What do you see as the doctrine of Chapters 1-3 I am sorry that you are not as sure as I am... maybe when you get older :>)

[RnMomof7]

I would submit to you that one reason that atheists find it so attractive is that it gives them ample reason for more easily rejecting the idea of a loving, sovereign God. Cuz it's a little difficult to see Him through the fog of Calvin.

How is the nature of the God that Arminians teach sovereign?

[CindyDawg]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1117828/posts

[RnMomof7]

Isa 43:7 "Everyone who is called by My name, And whom I have created for My glory, Whom I have formed, even whom I have made."
This doesn't even come close to saying man is created for God's glory. It says the elect are, right?

It surely indicates that some vessels are made for a special use and some for dystruction

A very good verse on election

From Matthew Henry , a beautiful thought

Verses 1-7 God's favour and good-will to his people speak abundant comfort to all believers. The new creature, wherever it is, is of God's forming. All who are redeemed with the blood of his Son, he has set apart for himself. Those that have God for them need not fear who or what can be against them. What are Egypt and Ethiopia, all their lives and treasures, compared with the blood of Christ? True believers are precious in God's sight, his delight is in them, above any people. Though they went as through fire and water, yet, while they had God with them, they need fear no evil; they should be born up, and brought out. The faithful are encouraged. They were to be assembled from every quarter. And with this pleasing object in view, the prophet again dissuades from anxious fears.

[CindyDawg]

Yall are going to love this one lolhttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1117828/posts

[RnMomof7]

Who was it, Bill Cosby maybe, who said, "losing one parent is a tragedy; losing both is just carelessness."

LOL LOL

[CindyDawg]

Sorry. My c/p keeps pulling up the previoushttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1117848/posts

[RnMomof7]

Frankly Dave I wonder if you know your own doctrine .

Is this true?

Q.575. Are these three things, namely: An outward or visible sign, the institution of that sign by Christ, and the giving of grace through the use of that sign, always necessary for the existence of a Sacrament?
Yes. The giving of grace. Not the earning of grace.

That grace is completely under YOUR CONTROL, not Gods

You make the decision to go to communion. You are in complete control of that grace ...you decide if you get the grace by going to communion or not

You have earned the grace by your action..God is your debtor

Did God know that Adam and Eve would fall ? Of course the Bible tells us that . Could God have prevented the fall had it been His will , of course. So by clear implication the fall was an ordained plan of God . He made man a free moral agent , Adam had a free will and could have obeyed, he chose to rebel . God placed the ability to rebel in the make up of men , but Adam ( unlike us) was created with a pure and innocent nature. He had a totally free choice uninhibited by the depravity that man inherits from him. He had the ability to obey and chose sin. God knew He would do that , He knew exactly how Adam would act under certain circumstances .. He could have changed the circumstances so that Adam would not have had an opportunity to rebel . He did not , by that action He ordained the fall

[RnMomof7]

Yep ..every man will stand in judgment before God WITHOUT an excuse. You guys are the one that believe that mans will is stronger than God , I would expect this to be a no brainer to you

Sin is a violation of A KNOWN LAW of God.

Did pharroh sin ? Might be an interesting question to contemplate some day . But we do know he was a tool in the hand of God

[RnMomof7]

Who did cause the rejection of God, in your system? Was humanity predestined for Hell from the outset? And if so, on what basis?

The bible says because it was his good pleasure to save those He chose to save . You want to tell God that he can not do as he desires?

[RnMomof7]

You guys sure scream alot for being "comforted".

Naw you're just so hard of hearing we have to raise our voices :>)

[Cvengr]

You might find it more constructive to study God's directive will, His permissive will, and His over-ruling will.

For the believer, God has a plan and He directs us through the Word of God how to direct our lives. Whenever man rebels from God's directive will, His permissive will immediately takes over. For the believer, this occurs whenever we sin. God will have nothing to do with sin, He is perfect righteousness and holiness and has perfect integrity.

He does allow man to exercise his free will as a mechanic in solving the angelic conflict.

While the believer resides in the permissive will of God, he is in dangerous situation, because this is where divine discipline begins to act upon the believer.

If the believer becomes too immersed in sin and refuses to return to God, he doesn't lose his salvation, rather there might be a time when the reversionist believer no longer serves a worthwhile purpose prior to the first death and his state leads to the sin unto death as part of the ver-ruling will of God where God finally calls the fallen believer home.

[Cvengr]

Sin is any disobedience of God's will. Even if we are unaware of that will, we can still sin. There are known sins and unknown sins, but the sin always involves a thought which resulted in that disobedience, even if in inaction.

[Havoc]

Guys, I have an announcement to make.

Some of you may already know. Ksen knows, and I asked him not to say anything; but, after some long thought today having been down sick yet again, I felt it is in the open now and maybe some would wish to know.

Many of you know my story from 4 years ago when I was hospitalized with pneumonia. At that time, I was also diagnosed with Emphysema.

I don't know what I should tell you beyond that. The doctor initially told me that the disease is pretty much terminal; but, terminal usually means 3-10 years.

I don't wear this on my sleave because I don't want people looking at me as someone with a disease. Nor have I ever wanted to be accused of using it for leverage. But in a heated couple of debates this past week on non-religious issues, it came out in anger. So it's out, and when ksen became aware, I was pretty much horrified at how ya'll would take it. I told him I can take care of myself. I told him I've lived with it and getting healed doesn't matter to me. I'd just as soon go home if I get that chance to go early. I'm not in a huge rush persay; but, given the choice ;)

I'm here doing what I can until the bell rings and it's time to go. The rest is in God's hands. I generally don't mind seeking help for my brother; but, for myself, I'm not one to put anyone out on my behalf if I can find a way not to. I walked a mile to work in subzero weather last winter and got really ill rather than put anyone out at the last minute. It ended me up in the hospital. So you'll appreciate that I'm pretty stubborn about doing what I have to to get a job done even if it kills me (lol). It is ironically humorous to me anyway.

So, there it is. I don't know what else to really tell you.
But I thought if you were going to find out, it should come from me.

Grace & peace.

[Havoc]

please see above