Posted on 06/19/2002 7:11:34 AM PDT by SheLion
Some Haverhill restaurant owners are complaining about a city ban on smoking.
NewsCenter 5's Kelley Tuthill said that they claim the smoking ban is driving customers away and they say they're ready to fight to get it overturned.
Restaurant owners said that they've lived with these new regulations for three months with devastating consequences. They plan to speak out Tuesday night at a meeting at City Hall.
In Haverhill, the bar banter has moved outside. Three months ago, the city banned smoking in most restaurants. The ashtrays may be gone, but so are the customers.
"I would say we lost 30 to 40 percent of our business right off top since March 1, and it happened that day," restaurant owner Mike Difeo said.
It was a similar story at Benny's farther north on Route 125.
"It's a struggle. I've lost $49,000 as of today, and I can see I lost my main base of customers because of non-smoking. I am losing help. My people are not making money. I went from 58 employees to 44 employees," restaurant owner Ben Brienza said.
Workers and some customers may be heading across the border to New Hampshire.
"I think it's a ridiculous law. Little by little, we are lawing ourselves right out of freedom," one customer said.
"A lot of people we don't see anymore. It's sad," another customer said.
Before the regulations, nonsmoking customer could dine in a separate section of the restaurant.
So is Haverhill fixing something that wasn't broken? Not according to a member of the board of health.
"You can't drive over 65 on the highway -- that is a health issue because of accidents, and there are many different rules in that regard," board of health member Dr. Carl Rosenbloom said. "I think (the government) has an obligation to protect certain aspects of public health that an individual cannot protect themselves."
The board of health does not expect to make any decision at Tuesday night's meeting. It will take public comment for at least a week. Then, board members will either keep the regulations as is, go to a citywide ban in all establishments or chose something in between.
Tell you what. If you can point to the post I said I agreed that its right for governments to ban smoking in a private restaurant I will donate $25 to the smokers cause of your choice. If you cannot find such a post then I would appreciate it if you would stop lying about my posistion.
A strawman argument is when someone makes up a position that the other person does not take and then knocks it down. I am knocking down YOUR position. Not the one you pretend to have.
The below comment is your post, number 68 on this thread.
Plus my posistion is that the towns do have the right to ban smoking but they have an obligation to compensate the existing restaurant for the decrease in market value of the restaurant because its no different that taking their property.
Your position is the above, despite your obfuscation.
Second, it is also my contention that in the event that a government, whether rightly or wrongly, terminates the ability of a restaurant owner from serving smokers he should be compensated.
That's is your real position. Screw the owners, make them do it your way at the point of a gun, but FEEL better about it because you advocate compensating them with money taken by force from those who oppose your "solution". Nice try. Anyone who was paying attention figured out your little deception. Anyone who advocates this BS is a thug.
The smokers here apparently don't care about him.
BS, as indicated, you don't. If you did, you would buy his resturant and change the rules. Not hire government thugs to force him to run his property as you desire. Facism, pure and simple.
Third, my posistion is the reason that you are getting so successfully attacked on your options on places you can smoke is not because of health reasons its because it stinks.
Your pet peeve is showing. If you don't like the smell, don't go there. You never address this no matter how many times I bring it up because you know it will force you to admit that you think some phantom right exists to dine in a private establishment on your own terms. A moronic idea if ever there was one.
It stinks so badly that otherwise good conservatives really can't get all that worked up over the issue.
You ain't a conservative, you are an authoritarian.
P.S.,,,,,,,,,Just for the record, I'm not a smoker. I love freedom, even for people like you who only pretend to like it.
Would it be cheating if I told you where it was? LOL
Hint,,,It's in post #68 on this thread, but don't hold your breath waitng for the $25, they usually find some far out explanation of why what they said isn't what they said. LOL
"When a place gets crowded enough to require IDs, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it has made it possible to go elsewhere."--RAH
This is why we need space travel now.
Based on your sign-on name there's a few more things that are un-PC.
You're from Texas
You're a parent
You're a conservative
Some questions
Do you drive an SUV or big pickup ?
Do you wear fur ? (Wait ... you live in Texas, nevermind .. too hot)
Do you eat non-dolphin safe tuna ?
Being married seems to be un-PC
Could you be any more un-PC ?
Hmmm ... you might actually have to work for un-PCness at this point.
They do have the right but I don't agree with it but go ahead and keep making your straw man arguments because its all you have.
But if your not willing to endorse compensation to the restaurant owner at least stop pretending you care about them.
You wouldn't be cheating, you would be distorting my words. The fact that a town has the right to do something isn't the same as saying I believe they should. You consistently read what I don't write.
I am certain Joe would remember that I have never advocated private bans.
Could you be any more un-PC ?
Hmmm ... you might actually have to work for un-PCness at this point. Nope, I like things just the way they are.LOL. I drive liberals nuts. Some Conservatives too, who think I'm too conservative, whatever that means.
I'm suprised it's not up and running heavy in a few states already.
Nam Vet
Interestingly, by using a preventive inhaler before leaving the house, my wife can now go into that same restaurant, with no asthma symptoms. We still go there often, despite the smoke, because we keep hoping to see that girl there again. You see, we never got her name.
What a chilling story. But didn't you forget the part about discovering the hook on the car door handle when you got home?
VRWC_ minion, would you please send the $25 to non-smoker TJ for his principled stand against tyranny?
Thank you.
Now with your latest screed I can feel nothing but embarrassement for you.
First of all, hokey anecdotes about a supposedly "true" experience are what slimeball politicians use each and every time they are about to impose some whacked out regulation or law to protect us from ourselves. On examination anecdotal evidence is less than useless for the rest of us.
Secondly, if your story has any veracity, you should consider a weight loss program for your wife as obesity is the leading independent cause of adult onset asthma.
Asthma is no laughing matter, however, and attacks most certainly can be triggered by a smokey indoor environment. Indoor smoke in restaurants can have many causes, among them open fireplaces, indoor meat grills and cigarette smoke.
What I find interesting is that a freedom fighter like yourself would blame smokers and want them removed, when it is so obviously up to the restaurant owner to maintain a clean air environment.
Interesting also that you and your wife continue to patronize this restaurant, despite the owners refusal to address the real concerns of your wife and your wife's rescuer has not returned.
The figure of 400,000 premature deaths a year is based on a computer projection in a program known as Smoking-Attributable Mortality, Morbidity, and Economic Costs software (SAMMEC), which is akin to the computer models used to predict "Global Warming" and has no epidemiology to back it up. It's the old computer truism Garbage In, Garbage Out (GIGO). In fact, according to the Cato Institute study, they are simply Blowing Smoke About Tobacco-Related Deaths.
It appears that the smokers in SAMMECs own statistics actually live longer than the average.
Then, to wrap up, you go back to farts. What is your obsession with farts? Give me your mailing address so that I can send you some of my old used undies and you can be happy all the time.
I'll have to use UPS as the Post Office will not take hazardous materials.
Yes it does. Too bad we aren't employing its principles anymore.
Actually the trade in trafficking cigarettes across state borders has really been around for a long time. I can remember years ago when I was driving trucks in the Midwest, on some of the back roads I would see signs at the state line giving notification that transporting cigarettes across state lines was a federal offence.
I also remember reading some articles about the trade which was saying that it was predominately syndicate controlled, and although small in size, was big enough to have gotten some people killed.
But check out this article that has been appearing recently. Defense lawyer: Accused Hezbollah member did not support group
In it the government is saying that a cigarette smuggling operation is supporting a terrorist group through the proceeds of their trade. Sound familiar. So as these operations become bigger and more widespread the message from the government will get clearer. If you buy cigarettes on the black market, thereby refusing to let us rape you with our regressive tax scheme, well then you are a terrorist, same as the WOD message.
And since we are starting to live in a time where all the government has to do is allege that you a terrorist and they can immediately strip you of your rights of citizenship. Well, you get the picture.
All you have to do is be for individual liberty, property rights, and personal responsibility, to begin with.
The rest pretty much falls into place after that.
And you can SHOVE your "addicts" up your ___.
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