Posted on 01/14/2002 11:35:19 AM PST by NATE4"ONE NATION"
9.5 Theses for the Next Reformation
Modern-day Reformers Post Document on 'Church Door'
We the undersigned, out of love for the truth and a desire to see all Christians honor and acknowledge all that God has revealed in his Word, submit these 9.5 Theses for your prayerful evaluation and participation with us in calling for further reform. May these theses be the spark that ignites the next Reformation of Christianity.
1. Everything Jesus said would happen, happened exactly as and when He said it would-within the lifetime of his contemporaries.
2. Everything every New Testament writer expected to happen, happened exactly as and when they expected it would-within their lifetime-as they were guided into all truth and told the things that were to come by the Holy Spirit (Jn. 16:13).
3. Scholars across a broad spectrum are in general agreement that this is exactly how every NT writer and the early Church understood Jesus' words. If they were wrong on something this important, how can we trust them to have conveyed other aspects of the faith accurately, such as the requirements for salvation?
4. No inspired NT writer, writing twenty or more years later, ever corrected their Holy-Spirit-guided understanding and fulfillment expectations (Jn. 16:13). Neither should we. Instead, they intensified their language as the "appointed time of the end" (Dan. 12:4; Hab. 2:3) drew near-from Jesus' "this generation" (Mat. 24:34), to Peter's "the end of all things is at hand" and "for it is time for judgment to begin" (1 Pet. 4:7, 17), and John's "this is the last hour . . . . it is the last hour" (1 Jn. 2:18).
5. Partial fulfillment is not satisfactory. 3 out of 5, 7 out of 10, etc., won't work. Partial does not pass the test of a true prophet (Deut. 18:18-22). Again, Jesus time-restricted all of his end-time predictions to occur within the 1st-century time frame.
6. God is faithful (2 Pet. 3:9) and "not a man that he should lie" (Num. 23:19). Faithfulness means not only doing what was promised, but also doing it when it was promised.
7. 1st-century, fulfillment expectations were the correct ones and everything happened, right on time-no gaps, no gimmicks, no interruptions, no postponements, no delays, no exegetical gymnastics, and no changing the meaning of commonly used and normally understood words. Such manipulative devices have only given liberals and skeptics a foothold to discredit Christ's Deity and the inerrancy of Scripture.
8. What needs adjusting is our understanding of both the time and nature of fulfillment, and not manipulation of the time factor to conform to our popular, futuristic, and delay expectations.
9. The kingdom of God was the central teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ, is a present but greatly under-realized reality, and must again become the central teaching of his Church.
9.5. We have been guilty of proclaiming a half-truth-a partially delivered faith to the world and to fellow Christians. We must repent and earnestly "contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3). If Christianity has been as effective as it has by proclaiming that Jesus Christ, the Messiah, came, died for our sins, bodily arose from the dead, and ascended to Heaven "at just the right time" (Rom. 5:6; Dan. 9:24-27), how much more effective might it be if we started preaching, teaching, and practicing the whole truth-i.e., a faith in which everything else also happened "at just the right time," exactly as and when Jesus said it would and every NT writer expected (Jn. 16:13). Dare we continue to settle for less?
Surely today, the words of Martin Luther, as he stood in defense before the Diet of Worms in 1521, are still applicable and compelling for the "always reforming" Church:
"Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures . . . and my conscience is captive to the Word of God . . . . I cannot do otherwise. "
Original Signatories
John Noe, President Prophecy Reformation Institute Indianapolis, Indiana Rick Chromey, Professor of Christian Education Saint Louis Christian College Florissant, Missouri
Edward E. Stevens, President International Preterist Association Bradford, Pennsylvania
Danny Griffin, President Carolina Christian Ministries Charlotte, North Carolina
John Anderson, President Lighthouse World Ministries Sparta, North Carolina
Walter C. Hibbard, Former Founder & Chairman Great Christian Books, Inc. Newark, Delaware
Mike Lightfoot, Pastor Father's House Fellowship Clarkston, Washington
Terry Siverd, Minister Cortland Church of Christ Cortland, Ohio
Kenneth J. Davies, President Grace Ministries Lemon Grove, California
Joseph Lewis, Pastor Fulfilled Bible Fellowship Delair, New Jersey
Jerry Wayne Bernard, Vice President Scripture Research, Inc. Riverside, California
Arthur J. Melanson, President Joy of the Lord Ministry Audubon, New Jersey
Jerry Hester, Pastor Dominion Community Church Greer, South Carolina
Terry M. Hall, Minister Miami Valley Church Beavercreek, Ohio
Gene Fadeley, President Anchor Publishing Charlotte, North Carolina
Rod Moyses, Manager M2ktalk.Com, (internet-satellite radio networks) Fresno, California
Stan Newton, Pastor Missionary to Bulgaria Seattle, Washington
Timothy R. King, Pastor Central Baptist Church Grand Junction, Colorado
Walter Koch, Pastor Emanuel Centro Christiano El Monte, California
Jack C. Scott, Jr., Minister Glacier View Church Kalispell, Montana
A. Wilson Phillips, Pastor Abundant Life Covenant Church Springfield, Missouri
Thomas A. Price, Jr., Pastor Sherman Community Church Sherman, New York
Don K. Preston, Minister Ardmore Church of Christ Ardmore, Oklahoma
David Curtis, Pastor Berean Bible Church Cheasapeake, Virginia
Jessie E. Mills, Jr., Minister Central Church of Christ Bonifay, Florida
Bud Fleisher, Host/Producer "Let's Talk Religion" (radio program) Clearwater, Florida
Ron Smith, President Friendship In Action (mission work in Mexico) Mission,
Texas Bill Clark Brumbaugh, Host Proactive News (nat'l syndicated radio program) Bozeman, Montana
James R. Hopkins, Minister Daleville Church of Christ Daleville, Alabama
William Bell, Minister Raines Road Church of Christ Memphis, Tennessee
Published by the Prophecy Reformation Institute: a conservative, evangelical ministry dedicated to continuing the Reformation into the field of eschatology-end-time Bible prophecy, and the International Preterist Association.
Books for the Next Reformation
· Chilton, David. "The Days of Vengeance." Ft. Worth, TX.: Dominion Press, 1987.
· DeMar, Gary, "Last Days Madness: Obsession of the Modern Church." Atlanta, GA.: American Vision, 3rd ed., 1997.
· *________. "End Times Fiction: A Biblical Consideration of the Left Behind Theology." Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 2001.
· Gentry, Jr., Kenneth L. "Before Jerusalem Fell." Atlanta, GA.: American Vision, revised ed., 1998.
· *Noe, John. "Beyond the End Times: The Rest of . . . The Greatest Story Ever Told. "Bradford, PA.: IPA, 1999.
· *________. "Dead In Their Tracks: Stopping the Liberal/Skeptic Attack on the Bible." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2001.
· ________. "Shattering the ‘Left Behind’ Delusion." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2000.
· ________. "The Israel Illusion: 13 Popular Misconceptions about This Modern-day Nation and Its Role in Bible Prophecy. "Fishers, IN.: PRI, 2000.
· ________. Top Ten Misconceptions about Jesus’ Second Coming and the End Times. Fishers, IN.: PRI, 1998.
· Otto, Randell E. "Case Dismissed: Rebutting Common Charges Against Preterism." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2000.
· Russell, J. Stuart. "The Parousia." Bradford, Pennsylvania: IPA, 2002. Reprint of the second edition originally published by T. Fisher Unwin, in London, England in 1887.
· *Sproul, R.C. "The Last Days According to Jesus. "Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1998.
· Stevens, Edward E. "Questions About The Afterlife. "Bradford, PA.: IPA, 1999.
· ________. "What Happened In A.D. 70?" Bradford, PA.: IPA, 6th ed., 2001.
· Terry, Milton S. "Biblical Hermeneutics. "Eugene, OR.: Wipf and Stock Publishers, 1890, 1999.
* (top priority—read first)
FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: John Noe Prophecy Reformation Institute 9715 Kincaid Drive Suite 1100 Fishers, IN 46038
E-mail: jnoe@prophecyrefi.org Ph.# 317-841-7777, Ext. 350 Fax# 317-578-2110
Edward E. Stevens International Preterist Association 122 Seaward Ave. Bradford, PA 16701
E-mail: Preterist1@aol.com Ph.# 1-814-368-6578 Fax# 1-814-368-6030
Be sure to visit our websites: www.prophecyrefi.org. Website: www.preterist.org.
_ Copyright 2001 by John Noe
All rights reserved. This material may be reproduced or transmitted by any means in any form, electronic or mechanical, including photocopy, recording, or any information storage and retrieval system, without prior written permission, but only in its entirety-i.e., both pages.
Really? Please show me where the proof of this is. I have never found it in scripture.
Yeah, historic Pre-Mills place the return of Christ at the end of a "period of tribulation" (not necessarily a specific "seven years", historic Pre-Mills are not nearly as fond of date-setting as Dispensationals), preceding a 1,000 year bodily reign of Christ on this earth ("pre-millenial"). Then, towards the end of the Millenium, Satan is loosed for a short while, heresies lead many into rebellion against the administration of King Jesus, so God puts down the rebellion and then detonates the universe. Enter the New Heavens and the New Earth.
This eschatology has always appealed to me, as I kinda like the idea of King Jesus returning to the earth and essentially declaring to Man, "Look around, and see what a hellish mess your sinful governments and blasphemous theologies have made of this earth. Now watch, O Man, and see the goodness which will spring forth under the reign of a Rightful King and High Priest." And then Man still rebels against Him!! So characteristic of Man's nature. We are, in our natural state, sons of Adam and daughters of Eve.
Trouble is, if that chronology is accurate, then the "Day of God" when the universe melts away would hardly be coming as a "thief in the night":
OP and Woody sitting around on deck-chairs, somewhere in the Millenial Kingdom:
That's the problem. 2 Peter 3: 10-12 doesn't seem to "fit" the usual pre-millenial "future history".
Doc probably has more to say than I do....
There is also no reason to read the story as saying that the disciples spoke in some angelic language which no one knew but it was still heard in the language of the Parthians or the Medes or the [etc.]
I'll post further discussion of this when I get a chance.
Interestingly, he never forbids the public use of the tongues gift. He regulates it.
To make your point a little clearer, I would specifically point out that the text does not say "We do hear them as though they speak in our tongues..."
More from me later tonight, I hope. (Maybe early tomorrow.)
The funny thing is, I have been a conservative amill for more than 20 years (I was originally a premill), and yet 2 Peter 3:1-15 was never one of my arguments for the amillennial position.
I never really noticed the eschatological implications of this obviously eschatological passage until I was reading James Stuart Russell's book The Parousia. (Russell was a full preterist.)
I quickly discovered that Russell's arguments concerning 2 Peter 3:1-4 were specious. (These verses are crucial to his position.) But as I read further in his exposition of vv.5-15, his arguments struck me as so bad that they jolted me into noticing what Peter was evidently saying about the Second Coming.
The funny thing is, I have been a conservative amill for more than 20 years (I was originally a premill), and yet 2 Peter 3:1-15 was never one of my arguments for the amillennial position.
I never really noticed the eschatological implications of this obviously eschatological passage until I was reading James Stuart Russell's book The Parousia. (Russell was a full preterist.)
I quickly discovered that Russell's arguments concerning 2 Peter 3:1-4 were specious. (These verses are crucial to his position.) But as I read further in his exposition of vv.5-15, his arguments struck me as so bad that they jolted me into noticing what Peter was evidently saying about the Second Coming.
I know you don't. I'll try to explain it!
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
The Bible describes our mind as blinded (2 Cor 4:4) and our heart as hard (Ezekiel 11:19, 36.26) and our spirits as dead (Ephesians 2:1,5) and we unable to submit to the law of God (Romans 8:7-8). Furthermore, the flesh of a man does not contain the means for doing good (Romans 7:18). And a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised (1 Cor 2:14).
By our very nature we are children of wrath (Ephesians 2:3).
These verses SHUT THE DOOR on the idea that a natural Man will ever Will to do any God-pleasing action prior to the regeneration of his spirit. The natural Man never, ever Wants to perform any God-pleasing action and so he never ever Will.
Isaiah 64:5b-7 You are indeed angry, for we have sinned--in these ways we continue; and we need to be saved.But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; we all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. And there is no one who calls on Your name, who stirs himself up to take hold of You; for You have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our iniquities.
Romans 3: 10-12, 23 -- As it is written, There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; all have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, there is not even one.... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
"Verily, verily I say unto thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God." Man is born spiritually dead; he cannot see the things of the spirit for they are spiritually appraised. Man needs to be reborn.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Man is born spiritually dead; he needs to be reborn. We are born again not by the will of our flesh which does not contain the means for doing good(Romans 7:18), nor of the will of man, but by God is a man born again. To as many as received Him He gave the power to become sons of God.
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God... The meaning and verb tense is clear and plain; whoever believes [present] that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God [perfect completed action with abiding effects]. Confession follows regeneration; it does not preceed it. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:10).
Regeneration comes first enabling repentence and faith and conversion. Before the new birth we are spiritually dead and dead men don't do any spiritual thing. Regeneration is totally unconditional. It it owed solely to the free grace of God. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God who showeth mercy (Romans 9:16). The Glory belongs to God.
Titus 3:4-7 But after the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared, He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost, which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that, being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Jeremiah 24:7 And I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the LORD; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God; for they shall return unto Me with their whole heart.
The Holy Spirit works the miracle of regeneration and thus, without the Holy Spirit, salvation would be impossible. The Holy Spirit is not at the beck and call of any man who says I'm going to sit in my apartment until you do something. Do you understand what we mean now?
Not that I wouldn't mind blowing the froth off a couple with ya' but if I read literally that no man may know the hour or the day, does it automically follow that I will also not know the year? It does seem to me that we are to be watchful precisely so that we are ready but also so we may know what season we are in. Seems that there is a verse about the seasons somewhere if I can remember...
I may soon have to get out of the Historic PreMill room at the inn, but until then, I'll simply cover the label with "Secured PanMill" room. Trouble is, you guys keep throwing verses out which do tend to be hard to explain.
Ahhh, but when I am in the gun threads, I am:
Carry
Concealed
Weapons
o
o
d
y
I can't provide anything on this, but I beleive there have always been those mostly among the poor to very poor who have touched God and received this gift. That would mean mostly uneducated and needy people who would be ridiculed by anyone for speaking about it and at times even killed as heretics. Satan does his job by simply mimicking tongues and using that to cast doubt and supply fuel for those who need an excuse to deny any power today and satisfy the false teachers who taught them to make a covenant with death. Those same people must not be aware that if Satan can mimic tongues, just maybe he can mimic their own conversions as well?
As is always the case we don't know enough about each others experiences and must present ourselves in relative sound bites. Frustrating. I will try to make this as brief as possible. Raised Catholic and an altar boy, I have always, read day one, believed in Jesus Christ. Never once have I doubted that. I ate, drank and was merrymaking like any good Catholic would. During and after leaving the service I had begun to be dissatisfied with my relationship with God and began wondering and contemplating within my spirit, "Lord, I know you are there and hear me but if you are there but will not or cannot help me than being there makes no difference. I need help, Lord." I began reading other than the Catholic bible. When I began really reading Paul's words for the first time, I began to see my present condition almost identical to Paul, O wretched man that I am. Who shall deliver me? That which I would not do, that I do. The law was bringing me death. Get this: I began to understand that there was a gift there for the asking and then realized nothing stood in my way but myself. I began telling others that I was going to get the Holy Ghost, of course I was met with blank stares but I didn't care. I knew I was, just a matter of time and you know the rest. This gift must be hungered and thirsted for, it will not simply fall upon you while you argue against its existence. I have never been the same since and have experienced other things from this same power which would bring me even more ridicule if revealed.
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