Posted on 01/14/2002 11:35:19 AM PST by NATE4"ONE NATION"
9.5 Theses for the Next Reformation
Modern-day Reformers Post Document on 'Church Door'
We the undersigned, out of love for the truth and a desire to see all Christians honor and acknowledge all that God has revealed in his Word, submit these 9.5 Theses for your prayerful evaluation and participation with us in calling for further reform. May these theses be the spark that ignites the next Reformation of Christianity.
1. Everything Jesus said would happen, happened exactly as and when He said it would-within the lifetime of his contemporaries.
2. Everything every New Testament writer expected to happen, happened exactly as and when they expected it would-within their lifetime-as they were guided into all truth and told the things that were to come by the Holy Spirit (Jn. 16:13).
3. Scholars across a broad spectrum are in general agreement that this is exactly how every NT writer and the early Church understood Jesus' words. If they were wrong on something this important, how can we trust them to have conveyed other aspects of the faith accurately, such as the requirements for salvation?
4. No inspired NT writer, writing twenty or more years later, ever corrected their Holy-Spirit-guided understanding and fulfillment expectations (Jn. 16:13). Neither should we. Instead, they intensified their language as the "appointed time of the end" (Dan. 12:4; Hab. 2:3) drew near-from Jesus' "this generation" (Mat. 24:34), to Peter's "the end of all things is at hand" and "for it is time for judgment to begin" (1 Pet. 4:7, 17), and John's "this is the last hour . . . . it is the last hour" (1 Jn. 2:18).
5. Partial fulfillment is not satisfactory. 3 out of 5, 7 out of 10, etc., won't work. Partial does not pass the test of a true prophet (Deut. 18:18-22). Again, Jesus time-restricted all of his end-time predictions to occur within the 1st-century time frame.
6. God is faithful (2 Pet. 3:9) and "not a man that he should lie" (Num. 23:19). Faithfulness means not only doing what was promised, but also doing it when it was promised.
7. 1st-century, fulfillment expectations were the correct ones and everything happened, right on time-no gaps, no gimmicks, no interruptions, no postponements, no delays, no exegetical gymnastics, and no changing the meaning of commonly used and normally understood words. Such manipulative devices have only given liberals and skeptics a foothold to discredit Christ's Deity and the inerrancy of Scripture.
8. What needs adjusting is our understanding of both the time and nature of fulfillment, and not manipulation of the time factor to conform to our popular, futuristic, and delay expectations.
9. The kingdom of God was the central teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ, is a present but greatly under-realized reality, and must again become the central teaching of his Church.
9.5. We have been guilty of proclaiming a half-truth-a partially delivered faith to the world and to fellow Christians. We must repent and earnestly "contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3). If Christianity has been as effective as it has by proclaiming that Jesus Christ, the Messiah, came, died for our sins, bodily arose from the dead, and ascended to Heaven "at just the right time" (Rom. 5:6; Dan. 9:24-27), how much more effective might it be if we started preaching, teaching, and practicing the whole truth-i.e., a faith in which everything else also happened "at just the right time," exactly as and when Jesus said it would and every NT writer expected (Jn. 16:13). Dare we continue to settle for less?
Surely today, the words of Martin Luther, as he stood in defense before the Diet of Worms in 1521, are still applicable and compelling for the "always reforming" Church:
"Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures . . . and my conscience is captive to the Word of God . . . . I cannot do otherwise. "
Original Signatories
John Noe, President Prophecy Reformation Institute Indianapolis, Indiana Rick Chromey, Professor of Christian Education Saint Louis Christian College Florissant, Missouri
Edward E. Stevens, President International Preterist Association Bradford, Pennsylvania
Danny Griffin, President Carolina Christian Ministries Charlotte, North Carolina
John Anderson, President Lighthouse World Ministries Sparta, North Carolina
Walter C. Hibbard, Former Founder & Chairman Great Christian Books, Inc. Newark, Delaware
Mike Lightfoot, Pastor Father's House Fellowship Clarkston, Washington
Terry Siverd, Minister Cortland Church of Christ Cortland, Ohio
Kenneth J. Davies, President Grace Ministries Lemon Grove, California
Joseph Lewis, Pastor Fulfilled Bible Fellowship Delair, New Jersey
Jerry Wayne Bernard, Vice President Scripture Research, Inc. Riverside, California
Arthur J. Melanson, President Joy of the Lord Ministry Audubon, New Jersey
Jerry Hester, Pastor Dominion Community Church Greer, South Carolina
Terry M. Hall, Minister Miami Valley Church Beavercreek, Ohio
Gene Fadeley, President Anchor Publishing Charlotte, North Carolina
Rod Moyses, Manager M2ktalk.Com, (internet-satellite radio networks) Fresno, California
Stan Newton, Pastor Missionary to Bulgaria Seattle, Washington
Timothy R. King, Pastor Central Baptist Church Grand Junction, Colorado
Walter Koch, Pastor Emanuel Centro Christiano El Monte, California
Jack C. Scott, Jr., Minister Glacier View Church Kalispell, Montana
A. Wilson Phillips, Pastor Abundant Life Covenant Church Springfield, Missouri
Thomas A. Price, Jr., Pastor Sherman Community Church Sherman, New York
Don K. Preston, Minister Ardmore Church of Christ Ardmore, Oklahoma
David Curtis, Pastor Berean Bible Church Cheasapeake, Virginia
Jessie E. Mills, Jr., Minister Central Church of Christ Bonifay, Florida
Bud Fleisher, Host/Producer "Let's Talk Religion" (radio program) Clearwater, Florida
Ron Smith, President Friendship In Action (mission work in Mexico) Mission,
Texas Bill Clark Brumbaugh, Host Proactive News (nat'l syndicated radio program) Bozeman, Montana
James R. Hopkins, Minister Daleville Church of Christ Daleville, Alabama
William Bell, Minister Raines Road Church of Christ Memphis, Tennessee
Published by the Prophecy Reformation Institute: a conservative, evangelical ministry dedicated to continuing the Reformation into the field of eschatology-end-time Bible prophecy, and the International Preterist Association.
Books for the Next Reformation
· Chilton, David. "The Days of Vengeance." Ft. Worth, TX.: Dominion Press, 1987.
· DeMar, Gary, "Last Days Madness: Obsession of the Modern Church." Atlanta, GA.: American Vision, 3rd ed., 1997.
· *________. "End Times Fiction: A Biblical Consideration of the Left Behind Theology." Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 2001.
· Gentry, Jr., Kenneth L. "Before Jerusalem Fell." Atlanta, GA.: American Vision, revised ed., 1998.
· *Noe, John. "Beyond the End Times: The Rest of . . . The Greatest Story Ever Told. "Bradford, PA.: IPA, 1999.
· *________. "Dead In Their Tracks: Stopping the Liberal/Skeptic Attack on the Bible." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2001.
· ________. "Shattering the ‘Left Behind’ Delusion." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2000.
· ________. "The Israel Illusion: 13 Popular Misconceptions about This Modern-day Nation and Its Role in Bible Prophecy. "Fishers, IN.: PRI, 2000.
· ________. Top Ten Misconceptions about Jesus’ Second Coming and the End Times. Fishers, IN.: PRI, 1998.
· Otto, Randell E. "Case Dismissed: Rebutting Common Charges Against Preterism." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2000.
· Russell, J. Stuart. "The Parousia." Bradford, Pennsylvania: IPA, 2002. Reprint of the second edition originally published by T. Fisher Unwin, in London, England in 1887.
· *Sproul, R.C. "The Last Days According to Jesus. "Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1998.
· Stevens, Edward E. "Questions About The Afterlife. "Bradford, PA.: IPA, 1999.
· ________. "What Happened In A.D. 70?" Bradford, PA.: IPA, 6th ed., 2001.
· Terry, Milton S. "Biblical Hermeneutics. "Eugene, OR.: Wipf and Stock Publishers, 1890, 1999.
* (top priority—read first)
FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: John Noe Prophecy Reformation Institute 9715 Kincaid Drive Suite 1100 Fishers, IN 46038
E-mail: jnoe@prophecyrefi.org Ph.# 317-841-7777, Ext. 350 Fax# 317-578-2110
Edward E. Stevens International Preterist Association 122 Seaward Ave. Bradford, PA 16701
E-mail: Preterist1@aol.com Ph.# 1-814-368-6578 Fax# 1-814-368-6030
Be sure to visit our websites: www.prophecyrefi.org. Website: www.preterist.org.
_ Copyright 2001 by John Noe
All rights reserved. This material may be reproduced or transmitted by any means in any form, electronic or mechanical, including photocopy, recording, or any information storage and retrieval system, without prior written permission, but only in its entirety-i.e., both pages.
There is no Biblical example of "praying in tongues".
There is Biblical example of preaching publicly in "diverse tongues", where God has ordained Power over Tongues for the advance and/or confirmation of the Gospel.
1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Notice that I am definitely not against Biblical tongues, but I don't think this says what you want it to say. I'd expect that Paul would speak with tongues more than anybody else; after all he did walk a huge portion of the known world.
Aside to OP and doc: I'd think that a Spirit Filled church would show a large proportion of prophecy over tongues.
Hmmm! Something to think about on both statements.
I'd think he would have to; he was God's ordained ambassador to the Gentiles.
A whole bunch of different Gentiles!
Aside to OP and doc: I'd think that a Spirit Filled church would show a large proportion of prophecy over tongues.
Given Paul's statements on the matter, and assuming a Continuationist position on the subject:
I would not be shocked to see God grant power over Tongues to a "missionary" church in foreign lands, and Prophetic illumination to an established Church for its edification. Just my supposition.
I wouldn't even have to change my name:
Continuationist
Calvinist
Woody
I have suggested to Jerry privately that I don't believe all the "wine" was used up soon after Penticost and that maybe (just maybe mind you) God has reserved some of the best for last.
Yeah, I thought of that. ;-)
I think you are overread these verses. As a Calvinist I don't find it hard at all to believe that 3000 were converted. Same scene, different men; and they thought these people were drunk. God poured out His Spirit on some and not on others. As many as were appointed unto eternal life, believed (just like it says further on in Acts).
I'm guessing that you are reading 1 Cor 14:14 as Paul saying don't do this?
Why not "How do they speak all our languages?" Were the 120 speaking 16 different languages at the same time? Each a different one or all in unison? You mean they were amazed and marvelled because the 120 suddenly somehow learned some 16 languages? And some were so impressed with this accomplishment that they decided drunkeness can cause one to suddenly speak 16 different languages? Come on, If I told you I speak 16 different languages since I woke up this morning, would you drop to your knees and praise God? How about me and my whole family?Of course not.
I don't see any other way to read it; Paul calls it "unfruitful".
I certainly don't know of any example of Paul "praying in tongues" himself; which suggests to me that Paul is addressing a hypothetical -- and saying that such a thing ("praying in tongues") would be "unfruitful", i.e., pointless. It's not what Tongues is for.
If I knew that you were a backwoods fisherman who natively spoke one language (Aramaic), maybe two in an absolute pinch (Aramaic & Greek)... then YES, INDEED, I would consider your sudden and instantaneous ability to speak 16 different languages to be absolutely Miraculous.
And that's exactly what happened at Pentecost, just as Luke described.
That IS what the sojourners said:
Don't exchange the Truth of God for a Lie.
Don't substitute a fit of drooling gibberish for the Real Miracle of sudden and instantaneous Power over Foreign Tongues.
That is why I have believed that it was a gift of being able to hear the gospel...so many languages...and yet each man heard it in his own language (and dialect??)awesome...
Would you drop to your knees and sell everything you have and forsake the Synagogue who might even kill you for it? People you never met and don't know suddenly speak 16 languages and that would begin the early church? That would "confound" "marvel" and "astound" at least three thousand? Next you will say that believing that alone was itself a miracle. You are being disingenuous.
I am being Biblical.
That is what Luke reported.
I don't think that is what Luke said...
...And I think we should simply take Luke at his words.
BUT, in my opinion, the main thing is that we define the Gift of Tongues Biblically -- as Power to communicate the Gospel in Foreign Tongues. Not Gibbering.
That point established, I don't have a strong desire to fight with my brethren about the mechanics of the Miraculous Communication (i.e., "Apostle's tongues versus Listener's ears"). God saw fit that the Gospel should reach 3,000 sojourners in their own languages; the Apostles preached, and He took care of the operational mechanics of the Miracle.
It is the charismatic Apostolic Pentecostals, after all, who have re-introduced the Unitarian Heresy into "evangelical" protestantism, denying the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity from their pulpits.
How does this happen?
Orthodox Theologian: "God is Trinity. How can you possibly gainsay this Truth?"
Apostolic Pentecostal: "GibberGibberGibberDroooooooool....."
Pentecostal Congregation: "Lo, look and see!! He has Gibbered!! He has the Gift of Holy Gibbering!! Surely his doctrine must be the truth of God. Away with these vile Trinitarians!! Come, let us gibber together."
No it is not, it is your interpretation of what Acts says. And here a man you do not know has witnessed to you that he received the gift of the Holy Ghost and spoke with the tongues of angels, a much better witness than a few languages and you tread closely to blaspheming the Holy Ghost by calling my witness "gibberish" and myself a "liar". I forgive you, the rest is Gods.
No, it is exactly what Luke says.
And here a man you do not know has witnessed to you that he received the gift of the Holy Ghost and spoke with the tongues of angels, a much better witness than a few languages and you tread closely to blaspheming the Holy Ghost by calling my witness "gibberish" and myself a "liar". I forgive you, the rest is Gods.
Mormons "witness" all the time that they have "received the Gift of the Holy Spirit" by a "burning in their breasts".
IMHO... just more gibbering.
Read into the Bible all the gibberish you like...
...it says what it says.
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