Posted on 01/14/2002 11:35:19 AM PST by NATE4"ONE NATION"
9.5 Theses for the Next Reformation
Modern-day Reformers Post Document on 'Church Door'
We the undersigned, out of love for the truth and a desire to see all Christians honor and acknowledge all that God has revealed in his Word, submit these 9.5 Theses for your prayerful evaluation and participation with us in calling for further reform. May these theses be the spark that ignites the next Reformation of Christianity.
1. Everything Jesus said would happen, happened exactly as and when He said it would-within the lifetime of his contemporaries.
2. Everything every New Testament writer expected to happen, happened exactly as and when they expected it would-within their lifetime-as they were guided into all truth and told the things that were to come by the Holy Spirit (Jn. 16:13).
3. Scholars across a broad spectrum are in general agreement that this is exactly how every NT writer and the early Church understood Jesus' words. If they were wrong on something this important, how can we trust them to have conveyed other aspects of the faith accurately, such as the requirements for salvation?
4. No inspired NT writer, writing twenty or more years later, ever corrected their Holy-Spirit-guided understanding and fulfillment expectations (Jn. 16:13). Neither should we. Instead, they intensified their language as the "appointed time of the end" (Dan. 12:4; Hab. 2:3) drew near-from Jesus' "this generation" (Mat. 24:34), to Peter's "the end of all things is at hand" and "for it is time for judgment to begin" (1 Pet. 4:7, 17), and John's "this is the last hour . . . . it is the last hour" (1 Jn. 2:18).
5. Partial fulfillment is not satisfactory. 3 out of 5, 7 out of 10, etc., won't work. Partial does not pass the test of a true prophet (Deut. 18:18-22). Again, Jesus time-restricted all of his end-time predictions to occur within the 1st-century time frame.
6. God is faithful (2 Pet. 3:9) and "not a man that he should lie" (Num. 23:19). Faithfulness means not only doing what was promised, but also doing it when it was promised.
7. 1st-century, fulfillment expectations were the correct ones and everything happened, right on time-no gaps, no gimmicks, no interruptions, no postponements, no delays, no exegetical gymnastics, and no changing the meaning of commonly used and normally understood words. Such manipulative devices have only given liberals and skeptics a foothold to discredit Christ's Deity and the inerrancy of Scripture.
8. What needs adjusting is our understanding of both the time and nature of fulfillment, and not manipulation of the time factor to conform to our popular, futuristic, and delay expectations.
9. The kingdom of God was the central teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ, is a present but greatly under-realized reality, and must again become the central teaching of his Church.
9.5. We have been guilty of proclaiming a half-truth-a partially delivered faith to the world and to fellow Christians. We must repent and earnestly "contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3). If Christianity has been as effective as it has by proclaiming that Jesus Christ, the Messiah, came, died for our sins, bodily arose from the dead, and ascended to Heaven "at just the right time" (Rom. 5:6; Dan. 9:24-27), how much more effective might it be if we started preaching, teaching, and practicing the whole truth-i.e., a faith in which everything else also happened "at just the right time," exactly as and when Jesus said it would and every NT writer expected (Jn. 16:13). Dare we continue to settle for less?
Surely today, the words of Martin Luther, as he stood in defense before the Diet of Worms in 1521, are still applicable and compelling for the "always reforming" Church:
"Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures . . . and my conscience is captive to the Word of God . . . . I cannot do otherwise. "
Original Signatories
John Noe, President Prophecy Reformation Institute Indianapolis, Indiana Rick Chromey, Professor of Christian Education Saint Louis Christian College Florissant, Missouri
Edward E. Stevens, President International Preterist Association Bradford, Pennsylvania
Danny Griffin, President Carolina Christian Ministries Charlotte, North Carolina
John Anderson, President Lighthouse World Ministries Sparta, North Carolina
Walter C. Hibbard, Former Founder & Chairman Great Christian Books, Inc. Newark, Delaware
Mike Lightfoot, Pastor Father's House Fellowship Clarkston, Washington
Terry Siverd, Minister Cortland Church of Christ Cortland, Ohio
Kenneth J. Davies, President Grace Ministries Lemon Grove, California
Joseph Lewis, Pastor Fulfilled Bible Fellowship Delair, New Jersey
Jerry Wayne Bernard, Vice President Scripture Research, Inc. Riverside, California
Arthur J. Melanson, President Joy of the Lord Ministry Audubon, New Jersey
Jerry Hester, Pastor Dominion Community Church Greer, South Carolina
Terry M. Hall, Minister Miami Valley Church Beavercreek, Ohio
Gene Fadeley, President Anchor Publishing Charlotte, North Carolina
Rod Moyses, Manager M2ktalk.Com, (internet-satellite radio networks) Fresno, California
Stan Newton, Pastor Missionary to Bulgaria Seattle, Washington
Timothy R. King, Pastor Central Baptist Church Grand Junction, Colorado
Walter Koch, Pastor Emanuel Centro Christiano El Monte, California
Jack C. Scott, Jr., Minister Glacier View Church Kalispell, Montana
A. Wilson Phillips, Pastor Abundant Life Covenant Church Springfield, Missouri
Thomas A. Price, Jr., Pastor Sherman Community Church Sherman, New York
Don K. Preston, Minister Ardmore Church of Christ Ardmore, Oklahoma
David Curtis, Pastor Berean Bible Church Cheasapeake, Virginia
Jessie E. Mills, Jr., Minister Central Church of Christ Bonifay, Florida
Bud Fleisher, Host/Producer "Let's Talk Religion" (radio program) Clearwater, Florida
Ron Smith, President Friendship In Action (mission work in Mexico) Mission,
Texas Bill Clark Brumbaugh, Host Proactive News (nat'l syndicated radio program) Bozeman, Montana
James R. Hopkins, Minister Daleville Church of Christ Daleville, Alabama
William Bell, Minister Raines Road Church of Christ Memphis, Tennessee
Published by the Prophecy Reformation Institute: a conservative, evangelical ministry dedicated to continuing the Reformation into the field of eschatology-end-time Bible prophecy, and the International Preterist Association.
Books for the Next Reformation
· Chilton, David. "The Days of Vengeance." Ft. Worth, TX.: Dominion Press, 1987.
· DeMar, Gary, "Last Days Madness: Obsession of the Modern Church." Atlanta, GA.: American Vision, 3rd ed., 1997.
· *________. "End Times Fiction: A Biblical Consideration of the Left Behind Theology." Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 2001.
· Gentry, Jr., Kenneth L. "Before Jerusalem Fell." Atlanta, GA.: American Vision, revised ed., 1998.
· *Noe, John. "Beyond the End Times: The Rest of . . . The Greatest Story Ever Told. "Bradford, PA.: IPA, 1999.
· *________. "Dead In Their Tracks: Stopping the Liberal/Skeptic Attack on the Bible." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2001.
· ________. "Shattering the ‘Left Behind’ Delusion." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2000.
· ________. "The Israel Illusion: 13 Popular Misconceptions about This Modern-day Nation and Its Role in Bible Prophecy. "Fishers, IN.: PRI, 2000.
· ________. Top Ten Misconceptions about Jesus’ Second Coming and the End Times. Fishers, IN.: PRI, 1998.
· Otto, Randell E. "Case Dismissed: Rebutting Common Charges Against Preterism." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2000.
· Russell, J. Stuart. "The Parousia." Bradford, Pennsylvania: IPA, 2002. Reprint of the second edition originally published by T. Fisher Unwin, in London, England in 1887.
· *Sproul, R.C. "The Last Days According to Jesus. "Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1998.
· Stevens, Edward E. "Questions About The Afterlife. "Bradford, PA.: IPA, 1999.
· ________. "What Happened In A.D. 70?" Bradford, PA.: IPA, 6th ed., 2001.
· Terry, Milton S. "Biblical Hermeneutics. "Eugene, OR.: Wipf and Stock Publishers, 1890, 1999.
* (top priority—read first)
FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: John Noe Prophecy Reformation Institute 9715 Kincaid Drive Suite 1100 Fishers, IN 46038
E-mail: jnoe@prophecyrefi.org Ph.# 317-841-7777, Ext. 350 Fax# 317-578-2110
Edward E. Stevens International Preterist Association 122 Seaward Ave. Bradford, PA 16701
E-mail: Preterist1@aol.com Ph.# 1-814-368-6578 Fax# 1-814-368-6030
Be sure to visit our websites: www.prophecyrefi.org. Website: www.preterist.org.
_ Copyright 2001 by John Noe
All rights reserved. This material may be reproduced or transmitted by any means in any form, electronic or mechanical, including photocopy, recording, or any information storage and retrieval system, without prior written permission, but only in its entirety-i.e., both pages.
I am like the man who discovered a "Glorious Treasure" in the field. (Matthew 13:44) When I was confounded with the reality that unless I had Christ I was a certain dead man and moreover, I was a certain eternal dead man I took the only option available: "Save me and have mercy upon me!" When the glory of the Living God was revealed in me I could not stand. Regeneration - knowing that Christ is solidly and perfectly reliable to save to the uttermost. Though I die, I shall live. (John 12:25) Conversion - knowing that Christ is Eternally desirable above all things. (Psalm 63)
Sorry, vmatt, but you are describing exactly why some people never experience a true conversion to eternal life. Like the rich man whose delight was in his earthly treasure, they never experience a true conversion because they are locked into the joys of this life. True conversion involves a willingness to forsake everything for the joy of possessing Christ.
I'll read it tonight!
Yes.
Important point you make here.
It is not even the miraculous Power over Tongues itself which is the "main event" of Acts 2... Tongues was just God's miraculous way of facilitating the main event, which was (and is) the presentation of the Gospel itself.
It is the Gospel itself which Man finds alternatively Astounding or Offensive... and it was their response to the Gospel, good or ill, which informed the opinions of the sojourners as to whether the Power over Foreign Tongues was truly a miracle of God, or a drunken carnival event to be derided (and ignored as quickly as possible).
Yeah, I see it. Very good point.
Romans 9:6-13 states very clearly that the new Kingdom of Israel is not made up of those who are the physical descendants of Abraham, nor does it involve the political entity that we know today as Israel. Rather, verse 8-9 says, "In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. For this was how the promise was stated: 'At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.'" Galatians 3:26-29 says, "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
It's clear from these passages that the restored kingdom was and is not for those who can trace their bloodline back to Abraham, but for those who through grace, faith, and obedience have put on Christ. :)
Good thoughts all but I have no idea what you're talking about.
Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?
Nope. I didn't hafta wait.
I received the Holy Ghost when I believed -- in order to believe at all!!
He hasn't left me since.
So just what was that falling all over the place in Acts?
It's not very PostMillenial, the latter days are AntiChristian in the extreme.
It's not very PreMillenial, as the earth melts away. Unless you believe that the "day of God" comes at the end of the Millenial Kingdom... in which case, it would not be coming as a "thief in the night" (i.e., the Millenial Church would know full well that the Thousand Years was nearly finished. "Well, Bob, look at all the heretics starting to raise their fists against the Risen King. Hey, I guess it really is the 998th year of Our Lord's bodily reign!! Okay, then, just two more years to go, then it's Gog-and-Magog time and after that, New Jerusalem shall descend. No worries, then; pass the beer.")
Diversities of Gifts.
Just as there are today.
Of course, God works when and where he sees fit.
Lotsa miracles during the Moses-and-Joshua days of the Church. Then relatively few, by comparison; a few here and there in Judges, but not many international bodies of water getting split up the middle. Then a burst of miracles during the Elijah-and-Elisha days of the Church; then another hiatus. Prophecy and Illumination given to Daniel, but not so much Fire from Heaven (just some fire-proofing). Big burst of miraculous outpouring during the Jesus-and-Apostles days of the Church, then another more "quiet" period... some Prophecy and lots of Illumination during the Reformation, but not too many bodily resurrections.
And no "holy babbling" anywhere in the whole line of Church history.
God ain't a slot machine, dispensing Gifts of Holy Gibbering and Sanctified Epilepsy at our demand. He gives those Gifts He deems fit for the Church in His appointed times, in His appointed places.
Good words all. You know, it seems almost surreal from where I sit, many words that say very little in light of what I am witness to. That for two thousand years and right under the nose of organized Christianity God has slowly and patiently selected certain individuals as myself whom I don't even know and filled them with the Holy Ghost evidenced with tongues, assuming I'm not the only one. You would think this would be encouraged, honored and excepted instead it is attacked and ridiculed, the actual workings of God.
I see how this will hurt the full Preterist, but how does this "put to the sword" the premill?
John 5:25 - the first resurrection in Rev 20 which stated the 1000 years?
Nope.
The Gift of Tongues must conform to the Biblical example to be considered a gift of God.
If it is Power over Foreign Tongues, it conforms to the Biblical Example.
If it is glossalic Gibbering, it is a Satanic Deception.
Feel free to respond with your best counter-arguments, as I am not likely to be a dependable advocate of the Pre-Mill view at the moment. Engelsma's stuff on Amill has made an impression on me of late....
I'm so confused now....
Yeah, I'd alluded to that ("tongues" vs. "ears"), but not so specifically.
...So if an evangelist at Pentecost spoke a word in his own language that had five lip movements but the corresponding language in which he was heard had that word as three lip movements, then apparently the crowd at Pentecost were the first ones to ever see a really bad lip-syncing job! Like what we see in some cheap foreign film.
(ROTFL)... hoo, boy. Funny stuff. And I agree.
But that said...
I think that what amazed the listeners was that they spoke those languages with current venacular, not a trace of foreign accent, not an indication that the fishermen were anything other but another guy from their own hometown. In short, their "tongues" were those of native speakers.
I agree with this statement even more strongly. As I said above, I don't endorse the idea of an "ears miracle" when Luke is plainly talking about a "tongues miracle", but to me, the main point is that Tongues is a Miracle of real communication, not unintelligible gibbering.
Once we have discounted the idea of sanctified gibbering as being simply UnScriptural, we're just arguing about the operational mechanics of the Miraculous Communication.
I wonder also if the conversion of the foreigners was God's only intent in the use of tongues at Pentecost. I also think that He used it to prove to those early key disciples His power and glory, to give them one of many experiences of His power through them to work His will, to make them fishers of men, the kind of courage required for most of them to ultimately lay down their own lives as martyrs in testimony of Christ and to build His church.
Actually, as long as it is recognized as just a sensible inference and not explicit Scripture, I agree with this as well. Matter of fact, while Tongues is used in Acts 2 primarily to advance the Gospel, it is used primarily to confirm the Gospel in Acts 10.
Anyway, nuff said.
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