Last Secret JFK Files Could Be Released Soon

Calling all conspiracy theorists! The National Archives is set to release the last remaining top-secret files about John F. Kennedy’s 1963 assassination, in a process that could begin by this summer. The trove of some 3,600 files, mostly from the FBI and CIA, were part of the collection assembled and sealed by the Archives, on the condition that they all be made public by October 2017.

But there’s a catch: According to the same law, President Donald Trump has the ability to block the release of any or all of the documents—if he certifies that keeping them secret is a matter of national security.

“It is self evident why the USSR would wage a disinformation campaign - self protection - especially when it was clear that certain parties tried to blame them.”

The only reason they would even do a disinformation campaign of this level is if they actually WERE guilty and wanted to avoid having the blame pinned on them. Otherwise, they wouldn’t bother doing so, just revealing they were innocent and in fact even offer to help them find whoever was responsible. I know if I were in the KGB’s position and I was blamed for something I didn’t do, I wouldn’t attempt a disinformation campaign to clear my name precisely BECAUSE I know I was innocent and thus would clear my name the clean way.

“As indicated earlier the KGB Colonel makes claims that LHO was not a agent. This is based on two principle points: it would have never employed an Oswald; and, perhaps more important they would not spend time and training on someone certain to have close surveillance as Oswald would.”

That KGB colonel, according to Pacepa, was a member of the domestic branch. He would not be privy to the actions of the assassination branch. It’s the same thing about how a CIA operative would not be aware of the FBI’s actions and vice versa.

“It takes more than a couple of years for it to properly train an agent, in any case.”

He had about three years to be trained when he defected via Helsinki. And considering he had a Soviet wife as well as a historical diary on him, it’s pretty obvious he was trained pretty well by that time.

Either way, suppose Donald Trump succeeds in releasing all the documents relating to the JFK assassination as promised, and they STILL don’t point to the mafia, and instead come up with more evidence pointing to either Castro or the Soviets, are you going to still think the Mafia is responsible?

Pacepa is wrong, the Colonel was in foreign intelligence and was posted in Mexico during the time Oswald went to the embassy. He even interviewed him wrt regard to the visas claiming that he was Kostin.

A disinformation campaign can counter another disinformation campaign. Drawing attention to non-Soviet suspects would not be confined to telling truths. They may have believed that theories questioning the conclusions of the Warren Commission were encouraged just for the effect they would have on the people. This would create confusion and lack of trust in the government certainly desirable to the USSR.

Pacepa is correct in that only very few in the KGB would have knowledge about who are agents and who are not. There simply is no way the KGB would use a man who had drawn attention to himself IN THE USSR and considered that his “suicide” attempt showed instability. This had blown any cover they could hope to create for him. It is also a fact that agents avoid any association with Leftist organizations which would also draw the FBI’s attention.

Most critical is that if, as claimed, he had gone rogue there is NO way he would have been allowed to live, not a chance in the world.

Pacepa bases his theory on assumptions not facts. Many of the “facts” I have believed at one time or the other have been changed as more information became available. No one knew anything about the Secret War against Castro which took on a life of its own against the orders of the White House. This was perpetrated by professional killers of the White Hand and the Black Hand as Giancana described the CIA/Mafia alliance.

The interactions between them and the anti-Castro Cubans reveal a dangerous alliance between desperate men, desperate for different reasons but all having the same source of their desperate state.

It is the revelation of these plots which underline my opinion wrt the Mafia and the pattern created by the actions of all these players leads me to conclude it was a major mover in the plot. The Ruby murder was just the icing on the cake. Pacepa has even shakier grounds for claiming he was working for Castro than he has for claiming LHO was a rogue agent.

Information disputing that conclusion will be evaluated and, my opinion would change.

“Pacepa is wrong, the Colonel was in foreign intelligence and was posted in Mexico during the time Oswald went to the embassy. He even interviewed him wrt regard to the visas claiming that he was Kostin.”

Are you seriously going to tell me that he’s wrong when he’s the guy who played a key role in that whole disinformation campaign? He’d HAVE to know about this kind of stuff.

“A disinformation campaign can counter another disinformation campaign. Drawing attention to non-Soviet suspects would not be confined to telling truths. They may have believed that theories questioning the conclusions of the Warren Commission were encouraged just for the effect they would have on the people. This would create confusion and lack of trust in the government certainly desirable to the USSR.”

It may have had its benefits, but I see absolutely no reason to lie unless it’s to cover up your own role in a crime, period, no exceptions. If I were in their position and I didn’t do the JFK assassination, I wouldn’t even dare do disinformation since I have nothing to hide. And don’t forget the Soviets have done misinformation to hide their own actions before, like with their blaming the Nazis for Katyn, or their hiding their role in Vietnam.

“Pacepa is correct in that only very few in the KGB would have knowledge about who are agents and who are not. There simply is no way the KGB would use a man who had drawn attention to himself IN THE USSR and considered that his “suicide” attempt showed instability. This had blown any cover they could hope to create for him. It is also a fact that agents avoid any association with Leftist organizations which would also draw the FBI’s attention.”

If it was a fact, please explain why they even allowed Che Guevara to rattle off to the London Daily Worker about how they would launch missiles into the heartland of the US, or even promote Che Guevara as a martyr and even arrange for Sartre to basically state that the monster was “the most complete human being of the century”? Please explain why agents actually had a LOT of association with leftist organizations via the hippie movement and the Weathermen Underground?

And in case you’ve forgotten, Che Guevara was very much unstable, and in fact, a LOT of communists have been proven to be unstable. Che even tried to start World War III.

“Most critical is that if, as claimed, he had gone rogue there is NO way he would have been allowed to live, not a chance in the world.”

Technically, Pacepa also “went rogue” by even defecting. Last I checked, he’s still alive. And besides, Stashinsky didn’t get assassinated when he got caught in West Germany and thus ultimately got Khrushchev caught with his pants down. Under your premise about the KGB being such a superhuman organization that they can do those acts without tying them to the act, they would have killed Stashinsky the second he even gets caught to avoid exposure, yet they didn’t.

“Pacepa bases his theory on assumptions not facts. Many of the “facts” I have believed at one time or the other have been changed as more information became available. No one knew anything about the Secret War against Castro which took on a life of its own against the orders of the White House. This was perpetrated by professional killers of the White Hand and the Black Hand as Giancana described the CIA/Mafia alliance.”

His “assumptions” are based on first-hand experience as part of the DIE and also based on stuff his own BOSS stated when he met with Khrushchev shortly after the CMC, heck, even Ceausceau was very certain that the KGB had involvement in JFK’s assassination, and that guy was in charge of Romania by the time Pacepa defected, and it’s also made very clear that Khrushchev had involvement in Mary Pinocet’s murder. The KGB Archives that were smuggled to Britain in 1992 also confirmed a LOT of his assumptions, so more likely than not, they actually ARE facts. And use common sense, do you REALLY think the KGB or any Eastern Bloc intelligence agency for that matter, would actually be in the dark about Castro, one of their own guys, having a “secret” war with JFK? Those were the guys who were funding Castro’s revolution in the first place, it’s naïve to think they truly had no clue. Heck, the Cold War practically involves espionage and information, meaning they’d need to know the information.

“The interactions between them and the anti-Castro Cubans reveal a dangerous alliance between desperate men, desperate for different reasons but all having the same source of their desperate state.”

And apparently, it fails to take into consideration the fact that LHO was actually handing out fliers for Fair Play for Cuba, meaning he was clearly not on the CIA’s side, even had his house chock-full of such literature as well.

“It is the revelation of these plots which underline my opinion wrt the Mafia and the pattern created by the actions of all these players leads me to conclude it was a major mover in the plot. The Ruby murder was just the icing on the cake. Pacepa has even shakier grounds for claiming he was working for Castro than he has for claiming LHO was a rogue agent.”

Not just Ruby, but also Humberto Fontova and even one of the anti-Castro people pinned Oswald as being part of Castro’s camp. And besides, that doesn’t explain how Jack Ruby all of a sudden died from Cancer just when he was about to enter parole, especially when the mafia doesn’t even have access to radu or a similar substance. And for the record, Jack Ruby knew about his actions of “Fair Play in Cuba” and even while incognito as a reporter corrected another reporter by giving the name, which he would only know if he was also taking orders from Cuba, if not the USSR.

“Information disputing that conclusion will be evaluated and, my opinion would change.”

Let’s hope so.

When your claim that the Col. was not a foreign intelligence operative is totally refuted, it makes everything else he says questionable. There are many pages describing his work in Mexico City precisely as a KGB operative from the Embassy.

Pacepa would not have had ANY first hand knowledge of any KGB operations outside those in Romania, he would have known what they wanted him to know and nothing more.

The Soviets LIED about everything. All its propaganda was disinformation.

Che Guervara has nothing to do with this discussion. Or his relations with the Soviets. Che had worn out his welcome with both Castro and the Soviets and many claim that he was sent to Bolivia to eliminate him. HIs death served international communism far more effectively than anything in his life.

Agents working as illegals would have NO public relations with Leftist groups. Oswald’s “leftism” was strictly an act.

Pacepa’s defection is basically irrelevant to the claim that Harvey was programmed to kill then control was lost. Perhaps his longevity shows that he was not considered dangerous to the Soviets. Nor does the opinion of Romanian leaders have anything to do with who killed JFK.

None of your examples are of the nature of a suicidality dangerous plot to train JFK’s killer. They are minor league stuff in comparison. No one claimed the KGB is superhuman but given its networks of moles and infiltrators killing LHO was child’s play.

Your other irrelevant comments ignore the role of the FBI as agent provocateurs throughout the history of the Leftist movements here. The Anti-War Movement was composed of ignorant but idealistic Americans easily led by any agent of a foreign power. Most of SDS’s Weatherman leaders were spoiled kids from wealthy families allied to domestic civil rights advocates. There were attempts to influence the AWM by Maoist groups, Trotskyite groups, those spouting the Stalinist line were not very prominent. Often the violence was instigated by our domestic intelligence agencies and is widely known. The AWM was strictly and comprehensibly monitored by the FBI and local “Red Squads”.

You assume too much, I never said the KGB/Soviets were ignorant of the attacks on Castro since HE certainly wasn’t and loudly complained about them. Too be clearer the American people were ignorant of the war. Our media did not publicize the issue and often allowed itself to be used by the intelligence agencies both wittingly and unwittingly.

Jack Ruby was familiar with Lee’s actions in New Orleans wrt to the fake organization he pretended to be a part of. That episode was so obviously contrived it is laughable. He had more contact with the FBI, the Dallas police and the Mafia families in NO and Dallas than he ever did with Castro.

“When your claim that the Col. was not a foreign intelligence operative is totally refuted, it makes everything else he says questionable. There are many pages describing his work in Mexico City precisely as a KGB operative from the Embassy.

Pacepa would not have had ANY first hand knowledge of any KGB operations outside those in Romania, he would have known what they wanted him to know and nothing more.”

Clearly, you aren’t aware of the pretty high role he played in the KGB operations of Operation Dragon, Operation Che, and Operation Ares, which he makes clear in various books and articles, including, among others, Disinformation.

“The Soviets LIED about everything. All its propaganda was disinformation.”

So I guess Khrushchev was lying when he said to his top officials that he wanted JFK dead, and that viper whore?

And for the record, I know that the propaganda against the West was disinformation. I’ve read his book Disinformation, after all. Heck, I’ve even watched the DVD on it.

“Che Guervara has nothing to do with this discussion. Or his relations with the Soviets. Che had worn out his welcome with both Castro and the Soviets and many claim that he was sent to Bolivia to eliminate him. HIs death served international communism far more effectively than anything in his life.”

Yeah, except the moment he gave the West propaganda to use against the East by even opening his mouth about Cuba’s aims during the Cuban Missile Crisis about the nukes, they would have Orwellian Retconned him. That’s what I would have done if I were in the Communists position because I don’t want anything even minor to tarnish international communism (again, if I were communist).

“Agents working as illegals would have NO public relations with Leftist groups. Oswald’s “leftism” was strictly an act.”

Tell that to Jean-Paul Sartre (who, BTW, was confirmed to be in bed with the KGB by Pacepa) and I.F. Stone (who IS a confirmed KGB agent). Both of whom were leftists and they had relations with the KGB, and Sartre was more than a little public with it considering he denounced anyone as CIA and rooted for various Communist groups and even the USSR, at least until the tanks started rolling into Hungary.

“Pacepa’s defection is basically irrelevant to the claim that Harvey was programmed to kill then control was lost. Perhaps his longevity shows that he was not considered dangerous to the Soviets. Nor does the opinion of Romanian leaders have anything to do with who killed JFK.”

Romanian leaders who actually met with Khrushchev. And for the record, Pacepa was practically responsible for Ceausceau’s death via his book Red Horizons, he even said the charges were taken “word for word” from his book. If I were a communist, or even a KGB agent, I’d consider him VERY dangerous for that. And besides, Pacepa’s using a fake name and under protection right now. And use your head, the USSR is a very totalitarian regime and would not tolerate defections. Do you really think someone, especially of Pacepa’s caliber (he’s the highest ranking Soviet-bloc intelligence officer to ever defect, being of a higher rank than even that KGB officer who defected) would have been allowed to defect to America? That would actually pose a huge problem to the Soviets due to it potentially undoing any and all of their propaganda efforts.

“None of your examples are of the nature of a suicidality dangerous plot to train JFK’s killer. They are minor league stuff in comparison. No one claimed the KGB is superhuman but given its networks of moles and infiltrators killing LHO was child’s play.”

I’m pretty sure that them aiding people in taking over countries for a Communist Insurrection, especially if they were our allies, is grounds for war. It most certainly was with World War I. And honestly, had I been president at that time and the Soviets tried to invade my allies, we WOULD declare war, and even fire nukes to obliterate the Soviets via Turkey before they even had a chance to launch their armaments.

“Your other irrelevant comments ignore the role of the FBI as agent provocateurs throughout the history of the Leftist movements here. The Anti-War Movement was composed of ignorant but idealistic Americans easily led by any agent of a foreign power. Most of SDS’s Weatherman leaders were spoiled kids from wealthy families allied to domestic civil rights advocates. There were attempts to influence the AWM by Maoist groups, Trotskyite groups, those spouting the Stalinist line were not very prominent. Often the violence was instigated by our domestic intelligence agencies and is widely known. The AWM was strictly and comprehensibly monitored by the FBI and local “Red Squads”.”

Not very prominent? They literally said they wanted their allies in North Vietnam to win, and received direct training from the KGB and Cubans. They most certainly weren’t “faked”. And the Weather Underground was most certainly prone to killing others. And for the record, Larry Grathwol, an FBI informant within the group, exposed that the Weather Underground planned to kill well over a million Americans via re-education camps. I doubt the FBI instigated several of the attacks. Let them occur to gather information on them? Maybe, but instigating them? No, the groups in question if anything had their violence instigated by the Communists they answered to.

“You assume too much, I never said the KGB/Soviets were ignorant of the attacks on Castro since HE certainly wasn’t and loudly complained about them. Too be clearer the American people were ignorant of the war. Our media did not publicize the issue and often allowed itself to be used by the intelligence agencies both wittingly and unwittingly.”

I’m not. And while I will agree that, unfortunately, our media was used by the intelligence agencies of our enemy, they most certainly weren’t used by our own intelligence agencies (if they were, we would have gotten a whole lot more victories and actually averted the anti-war movement before it began).

“Jack Ruby was familiar with Lee’s actions in New Orleans wrt to the fake organization he pretended to be a part of. That episode was so obviously contrived it is laughable. He had more contact with the FBI, the Dallas police and the Mafia families in NO and Dallas than he ever did with Castro.”

That wasn’t a fake organization (or at least, not CIA fake), and he was indeed a member. And for the record, you DO realize that he tried to get a visa to Cuba, right? If he were simply doing it for the CIA or even the Mafia, why go to Cuba specifically (and based on CIA documents, he even tried to get visas for the USSR, implying that Cuba was a relay point)? There were a whole lot of countries that don’t have direct communist ties that he could go to to avoid extradition.

It has DEFINITELY been proven that the CIA constantly used the media here. For you to claim that only foreign intelligence agencies manipulated the news is too ludicrous for someone knowledge to claim. “Operation Hummingbird” was the program.

With the Vietnam War the media turned on its allies and undermined the US effort. CIA still used it to spread the “Pentagon Papers” which whitewashed its role in the War.
It had been run by CIA for almost a decade. LBJ turned to the military to try and get their chestnuts out of the fire.

Pacepa apparently was a press agent for spreading lies, he did as ordered but has NO knowledge of the KGB/Oswald relation. He has plenty of speculations, assumptions, rumors and gossip but no hard evidence.

There is no evidence, Pacepa’s gossip notwithstanding, that Khrushchev’s said anything of the sort. But it is a juicy piece of gossip. Had he any desire to kill JFK no one would know about it other than he and the head of the KGB. Such a plan would have people working to fulfill it who would not even know the ultimate goal. It is all compartimentalized with everything on a Need to Know Basis.

Not only was Che not under the Soviet thumb but he was too big to kill. It would have hurt Intercom more than having him run his mouth. He had begun to doubt the price of the
Soviet “aid”. That was one of the reasons he was exiled. “Let the Americans kill him.” Then he becomes a “martyr”.

Stone and Sartre were fellow-travelers and Communists but their roles were not comparable to that of the mythic Oswald, inserted to actually kill a president. Such a person would do everything possible to avoid ANY public activity. That duo were used to spread disinformation but that is ENTIRELY different than killing a president.

Most of the Soviet scheming to overthrow governments was covered by “Plausible Deniability” not by assassination. It only invaded as a last resort knowing the black eye that would result.

“Ho, Ho, Ho’s Gonna Win” was the sentiment of most of the AWM that is without doubt and given the political war, was a correct prediction. There is no identity between a sentiment beneficial to the USSR and direction by the USSR.
My belief that we are wrong in Syria and Putin is right does not mean I have any connection to Russia.

There are numerous examples of domestic agents instigating violence, it is an excellent method of discrediting the organizations they had penetrated.

Weatherman was good at killing themselves another indication that it was domestically and amateurishly created. KGB would have trained them as assassins had it wished to, fewer townhouses would have been blown up.

There was no FPfCC in New Orleans. It was a creation of LHO totally. Another smoke out Pro-Castro supporters act.
You don’t seriously believe that Oswald actually believed the Cubans would let him in do you? The first thing it would have done would be to check with the KGB and would have rejected him without delay. And there is NO chance it would let him in after killing JFK, none.

If he was planning to kill the president why the heck would he go to Cuba? Makes zero sense. Another episode in his Leftist act.

“It has DEFINITELY been proven that the CIA constantly used the media here. For you to claim that only foreign intelligence agencies manipulated the news is too ludicrous for someone knowledge to claim. “Operation Hummingbird” was the program.”

If they were to “manipulate the media” as you so claim, there wouldn’t be any AWM people due to the media denouncing them as terrorists and having people fear protesting the war, they would have proceeded to publicly denounce Sartre as a psychopath, alongside Foucault, actually sway public opinion, and they most CERTAINLY would have made SURE the likes of Walter Cronkite did not push that we get out of Vietnam. If I were the CIA and I were to manipulate the media, I’d have complete totalitarian control to such an extent that there’s zero chance that the KGB would even push their message, much less succeed in their disinformation campaign. THAT’S total media manipulation then and there. Think S3 Plan from Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty for a good example of this. No, it was indeed the KGB and all those guys who were manipulating the media far more than the CIA ever can dream of even WITH Operation Hummingbird.

“With the Vietnam War the media turned on its allies and undermined the US effort. CIA still used it to spread the “Pentagon Papers” which whitewashed its role in the War.
It had been run by CIA for almost a decade. LBJ turned to the military to try and get their chestnuts out of the fire.”

Apparently, you failed to read the part where the military brass tried to suggest bombing various key supply paths in North Vietnam as well as mine their harbors to minimize American presence, and how LBJ’s response was essentially to throw a tantrum, and took in the so-called “whiz kid’s” advice over theirs.

“Pacepa apparently was a press agent for spreading lies, he did as ordered but has NO knowledge of the KGB/Oswald relation. He has plenty of speculations, assumptions, rumors and gossip but no hard evidence.”

Actually, I’m pretty sure the fact that Oswald had a historical diary (with obvious anachronisms and misspellings and terms reserved for more British-based elements), that he had a Soviet wife, and plenty of other evidence he had explicitly uncovered would qualify as actual hard evidence.

“There is no evidence, Pacepa’s gossip notwithstanding, that Khrushchev’s said anything of the sort. But it is a juicy piece of gossip. Had he any desire to kill JFK no one would know about it other than he and the head of the KGB. Such a plan would have people working to fulfill it who would not even know the ultimate goal. It is all compartimentalized with everything on a Need to Know Basis.”

Pacepa’s boss certainly said Khrushchev said this, and his boss most certainly would know because he was at the meeting where he said this. What, do you expect a tape recording to come out where he says this for you to believe it? Besides, the point of Department 13 was to avoid leaving behind a paper trail. And if they were so good at compartmentalizing, please explain how Khrushchev still got caught with his pants down when Stashinsky got caught in West Berlin trying to assassinate a guy?

“Not only was Che not under the Soviet thumb but he was too big to kill. It would have hurt Intercom more than having him run his mouth. He had begun to doubt the price of the
Soviet “aid”. That was one of the reasons he was exiled. “Let the Americans kill him.” Then he becomes a “martyr”.”

Ah, Che is under Soviet thumb. When he adheres to Communism, he is automatically UNDER Soviet thumb. Even the Chinese during the sixties were ultimately under Soviet thumb. And the only reason they’d even bother using Che as disinformation is if he STILL played some role for propaganda. Otherwise, they would have made sure they Orwellian retconned him out of existence after silencing him. I know I would have if I were the Soviets and the KGB. And don’t forget that Che even proceeded to try and instigate a bombing on Black Friday at New York and would have made him seem like a sunday picnic. What you’re failing to realize is that even “martyring” him would have put a bad stain on the Soviets. That’s why if I were the Soviets, I’d avoid even honoring him for the sake of Communism, because I know if I give ANY support for Che, it automatically would end up being a PR disaster for Communism especially when most people during that time would still remember the Cuban Missile Crisis.

“Stone and Sartre were fellow-travelers and Communists but their roles were not comparable to that of the mythic Oswald, inserted to actually kill a president. Such a person would do everything possible to avoid ANY public activity. That duo were used to spread disinformation but that is ENTIRELY different than killing a president.”

They’d need to use disinformation specifically to cover UP their role in killing a president, GENIUS. If they truly didn’t do it, why go the length to do disinformation. Just say they didn’t do it, and even offer to help the Americans find the true culprit, whether it be renegade KGB elements or renegade CIA elements or anybody. That’s what I would have done.

““Ho, Ho, Ho’s Gonna Win” was the sentiment of most of the AWM that is without doubt and given the political war, was a correct prediction. There is no identity between a sentiment beneficial to the USSR and direction by the USSR.
My belief that we are wrong in Syria and Putin is right does not mean I have any connection to Russia.”

Actually, a lot of the AWM definitely was aware that the NFL and Ho Chi Minh were communists, and the Weather Underground most certainly were.

“There are numerous examples of domestic agents instigating violence, it is an excellent method of discrediting the organizations they had penetrated.”

Yeah, and in case you haven’t noticed, there were plenty more examples of those organizations actually doing those violent acts without any prodding from domestic agents, like the Weather Underground. Even Karl Marx advocated in his writings basically acting like the Jacobins.

“Weatherman was good at killing themselves another indication that it was domestically and amateurishly created. KGB would have trained them as assassins had it wished to, fewer townhouses would have been blown up.”

Actually, the Weathermen were trained under the Cubans and even the USSR. Larry Grathwohl more than verified this, as you can read here (and he’d know, he was one of those FBI infiltrators): https://web.archive.org/web/20130729025529/http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/07/23/death-of-an-american-hero-larry-grathwohl-infiltrated-weather-underground-and-continued-to-speak-out/

“There was no FPfCC in New Orleans. It was a creation of LHO totally. Another smoke out Pro-Castro supporters act.
You don’t seriously believe that Oswald actually believed the Cubans would let him in do you? The first thing it would have done would be to check with the KGB and would have rejected him without delay. And there is NO chance it would let him in after killing JFK, none.”

If he didn’t believe it, why even BOTHER going to the Cuban embassy to get a visa in the first place? If I were in his shoes and I knew they would have rejected me, I wouldn’t go there precisely BECAUSE it would be fruitless anyways. And Castro most certainly would let him in.

“If he was planning to kill the president why the heck would he go to Cuba? Makes zero sense. Another episode in his Leftist act.”

Simple, because that’s either a relay point or the destination. And yes, if I were in his shoes, and I wanted to leave, and yes, if I were a KGB agent, I most certainly would go through that route. And if I were the KGB, I’d let him in and say “mission accomplished.”

Most of your comments are either not to the point or arguing against something I never said.

They border on the absurd for the most part and are based on third hand gossip, totally unverifiable.

And example is the remark about LBJ and the War. I said that the AWM’s chants “Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh, NFL is going to win”, was a prediction that came true because of the political powers here. Not only did I not miss any of that, I lived through it.

The CIA did not have totalitarian control over the media but manipulated it. In any case most of the media was indeed against the AWM until very late.

And no the facts you point to about Oswald is not hard evidence that Oswald was a KGB operative and actually argue the contrary. Where have we heard about a “historic diary” by other Lone Assassins? LHO was only one of several.

It is also ridiculous to claim because someone got caught compartmentalization does not work. Obviously an operation can go bad for many reasons totally unrelated to compartmentalization.

Tito was a communist and not under the thumb of the USSR. Albania pursued a course of Maoism not the Soviet model.
Castro embraced Moscow but did not follow its dictates at all times. Communism has not been monolithic since the Sino-Soviet split. There was an actual invasion of N. Vietnam by China which was roundly defeated.

Again, I never said that the AWM was unaware of the Communism of Ho and the NLF. It was a broad coalition of groups and ideologies, most of which were not Communist and had no love for Communism.

The Weather Underground and others visited Cuba and Algeria on several occasions but there is no proof of training in bomb-making. This is not the same as coordinating strategies.

You believe Che’s actions or possible involvement in terror would have been a bad “stain” on the USSR but it killing the president, an far more dangerous and fatal episode, would not? Obviously it would have united the entire Western World against it. There is zero chance that this was sponsored by the Kremlin.

Stone and Sartre spread disinformation about the nature of Communism and Capitalism not covering up an assassination.

And, no, the USSR would not have helped the US figure out what happened but that was not because of its involvement. Any traumatic event in a Western nation is to their benefit so there is no reason to believe it would have acted as you would have.

Oswald’s act included the NO actions and the Mexico City episode. Had he actually killed Kennedy on behalf of the KGB or with the assistance, he would have never survived long enough to get to Cuba.

Godfather II shows what happens to assassins who could endanger their masters.

I typed up a lengthy post responding to your various claims, but then the tab freezed temporarily, and then it logged me out. So, all I can say is:

1. The entire POINT of having media manipulation, or having such a proficiency of control over the media, in other words, is to have totalitarian control over it. Think the S3 Plan from Metal Gear Solid 2, for example. And considering Walter Cronkite was exposed in FBI files to have actually been very much involved in the AWM, to such an extent that he even loaned a certain Anti-War senator a CBS chopper to deliver him to a rally, I have my doubts about the media truly being against the AWM: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kyle-drennen/2010/05/14/

2. Stone would actually have been involved in the cover up, actually, especially when he was one of the people who was part of the coverup. In fact, the disinformation campaign actually used a lot of the same guys as the ones who made that slanderous claim that Pope Pius XII was pro-Nazi, specifically Victor Perlo, aka Raid or Raider, Carlo Marzani, aka Nord, as aforementioned, and, yes, Stone himself, who went by the codename Blin, and had been a KGB agent since 1944 when he received money from the Kremlin.

3. Regarding Che, it would most certainly have been just as bad as assassinating a sitting president. If they had no qualms with ensuring he was lionized instead of, you know, erased from human memory, they most certainly wouldn’t have any qualms with assassinating a sitting president and then covering THAT up.

4. There are plenty of sources that indicate the Soviets had in fact been responsible for the death of JFK. Like for example, the JFK Assassination Tapes by Max Holland. There’s also Disinformation by Ion Mihai Pacepa and Professor Ronald J. Rychlak, and that contains even MORE new information there besides what I had already covered before this post.

There was nothing out of the USSR that was NOT disinformation nor was it limited to foreign nations but reached its height wrt its own population. JFK’s death would have no effect on this.

It was not possible for the CIA to have implemented control over portions of the media, not that it did not try. But recall there were media outlets which were Right-leaning and they were very much against the AWM. It was not till late in the game that certain elements came out openly against it.

It have no idea what the S3 plan is. But is also true that there were very few Senators who supported it, opposition was politically deadly as the Nixon election by the “Silent Majority” in 1972. Most Americans were against it but did not fight back allowing it to succeed.

Whereas the Pope may not have been pro-Nazi, you have to admit that the organization of the “Ratline” was a disgraceful episode in the history of the Roman Catholic Church.

While I rarely read the New Republic, I am unaware of it taking a position on the Assassination. It disinformation involved a far different intent.

It is silly to claim that assassinating Che would be anything like assassinating JFK. Even had the US done it, the USSR would not have done doodley squat about it. It is certainty that that would not have resulted in nuclear war.

It would have been the most dangerous act in history had the Soviets been behind the killing. I do not care what Pacepa says about it, his “revelations” are merely another version of the Lone Assassin theory. His knowledge of KGB’s actions is limited by the nature of Intelligence operational methods.

I will continue to examine ALL theories about the killing but the least probable explanation is that the KGB did it.

“There was nothing out of the USSR that was NOT disinformation nor was it limited to foreign nations but reached its height wrt its own population. JFK’s death would have no effect on this.”

Clearly not, since there were a whole lot of defections going on and several of the defectors making clear what the true nature of the USSR was up to. One of those defectors, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, was even how we managed to learn about the truth of Stalin’s gulag camps, and the information was valid enough that most leftists actually left the Communist party in droves when Stalin’s crimes came to the forefront.

“It was not possible for the CIA to have implemented control over portions of the media, not that it did not try. But recall there were media outlets which were Right-leaning and they were very much against the AWM. It was not till late in the game that certain elements came out openly against it.”

Actually, most of the media was under the control of the left, and the CIA would not have been supportive of the left at all. In fact, we didn’t even get an actual right-leaning media outlet until FOX News. Before then, we got media that were left-leaning, either openly or otherwise pretending to be neutral. In fact, Walter Cronkite, the so-called “most trusted man in television”, was practically the FACE of the media as his moniker essentially implied, and he actually worked with the AWM in a very significant way as those FBI documents revealed.

“It have no idea what the S3 plan is. But is also true that there were very few Senators who supported it, opposition was politically deadly as the Nixon election by the “Silent Majority” in 1972. Most Americans were against it but did not fight back allowing it to succeed.”

Okay, you know the Metal Gear series, right? Well, one of the games, Metal Gear Solid 2, basically had a concept of influencing the will of the masses known as the S3 Plan (which stood for “Selection for Societal Sanity”). This scene essentially explains what it is all about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKl6WjfDqYA One of the scenes in the game also strongly implied that Dead Cell had been framed by the Patriots and literally everyone believed it. That’s what I meant about manipulating the media, basically something like that to that level.

“Whereas the Pope may not have been pro-Nazi, you have to admit that the organization of the “Ratline” was a disgraceful episode in the history of the Roman Catholic Church.”

Not sure how methods of escape the Nazis utilized during the aftermath of World War II had anything to do with the Roman Catholic Church.

“While I rarely read the New Republic, I am unaware of it taking a position on the Assassination. It disinformation involved a far different intent.”

IF Stone was a paid KGB agent, so yes, actually, it’s the same intent as the Soviets, and yes, they would need to do disinformation if they were to cover their own butts for the assassination.

“It is silly to claim that assassinating Che would be anything like assassinating JFK. Even had the US done it, the USSR would not have done doodley squat about it. It is certainty that that would not have resulted in nuclear war.”

No, no, you misunderstand: Them even ENDORSING and martyring Che would have been grounds for a nuclear war, being just as bad as assassinating a sitting president, precisely BECAUSE of his nearly instigating a nuclear war himself. That’s what I’m getting at. Had I been the US government and the USSR proceeded to lionize Che, we’d drop a nuke on Moscow immediately, especially after exposing to the public all the horrors that Che did, innodating them with the information to such an extent that the KGB not only would fail to sway anyone, but in fact ironically have the populace instead demand their blood.

“It would have been the most dangerous act in history had the Soviets been behind the killing. I do not care what Pacepa says about it, his “revelations” are merely another version of the Lone Assassin theory. His knowledge of KGB’s actions is limited by the nature of Intelligence operational methods.”

He wrote a book about disinformation methods, which he made clear were completely of a different class under the KGB than under any other Western intelligence agency. And he’d know from personal experience.

“I will continue to examine ALL theories about the killing but the least probable explanation is that the KGB did it.”

Yeah, and people said it was least probable that Stalin could commit those murders, yet here we are, he did indeed do so. And the Mitonkhin Archive already proved they were in on the assassination anyways.

“Stalin’s crimes were well known in the West just not in the USSR. It did not take Solzhenitsyn’s genius to reveal them. It was very well known that Uncle Joe had millions killed in the Great Purge. Solzhenitsyn just showed the depth of the inhumanity. He is the greatest novelist of the 20th century.”

FDR acted as though he didn’t even know about Stalin’s crimes, and even indicated that he placed more trust in him than in Churchill specifically because the latter “wasn’t imperialist.” So no, I’m pretty sure the West at large was clueless about Stalin’s actions. And as far as it being very well known Stalin killed millions in the Great Purge, it may have been well known among the Soviets, but it most certainly wasn’t well-known in the West. Let me remind you that Walter Duranty actually made it seem as though the Soviet Union was a literal paradise, and everyone BELIEVED him instead of demanding for his firing for clearly slanting the news.

“It is ridiculous to think that nuclear war should result from ANYTHING that the USSR did to Che. That is an in-house squabble in which we had no part.”

No, an in-house squabble would have Che Orwellian retconned, NOT resulting in a disinformation campaign to essentially lionize him. For a good idea, think along the lines about how Stalin often erased his own buddies from photographs after killing them when they rubbed the wrong way, or how Khrushchev managed to utterly destroy Stalin’s reputation with the Secret Speech. And I think you fail to remember that Che nearly tried to nuke us out of existence, and the Soviets also tried to put nukes in Cuba in the first place specifically so they COULD nuke us out of existence easily.

“Where did you get the idea that the CIA would not deal with the Left, it definitely would if it were in its interest. It certainly dealt with Castro by providing arms to his forces early in the game.”

For starters, calling someone affiliated with the CIA is a very good way to get you ostracized by the left, if not outright killed by them, meaning the left if anything would have absolutely no part with the CIA at all. Sartre even tends to denounce anyone he doesn’t like as being a CIA agent, for example (like, for instance, his fingering Levy as a CIA agent when he first appeared on the scene). So if the Left doesn’t want to deal with the CIA other than making sure the latter party’s dead/discredited, do you REALLY think the CIA would want to deal with the Left other than making sure they were dead? Heck, Che Guevara even tried to justify his murders by claiming they were all “CIA”. And anyways, the sources provided for Conservapedia showed the CIA were actually heavily involved in taking OUT Communist dictators, and the bandit wars indicated that, if anything, the CIA simply armed their allies with the wrong armaments, NOT armed Castro’s men. Now, the State Department WAS allied with the left, unfortunately, as was the OSS.

“There were Right leaning media outlets. Back then the Chicago Tribune, the Indianapolis Star, the Detroit News, the Arkansas Democrat and the Manchester Guardian are only some of them.”

But were they organized? That’s the issue. Unlike NBC, CBS, or heck, even ABC, most of the news during that time was dominated by the left, and arguably had been ever since Walter Lippmann insisted that objective journalism work with left-leaning university systems. Until FOX came up, not to mention radio talk show personalities like Rush Limbaugh, the left had a monopoly over news outlets. That’s also why it was popularly believed that we lost the Tet Offensive when in reality we had won it, because Walter Cronkite said it and therefore people believed it to be true.

“No I do not know the game you reference but I do have first hand knowledge of the AWM and can say for a fact that the media was hostile until opposing it became less dangerous.”

I have the Politically Incorrect Guide to the 1960s, and it paints the opposite picture, that the media if anything were either in willing collusion with the AWM or otherwise just duped by them. I’ll dig it out sometime today and give you the exact passages dealing with that.

“Certain Roman Catholic priests helped the Nazis escape and it is common knowledge that they did. Some even worked with the Nazis while the war was going on.”

Okay, I have heard of that bit. However, I might as well note that the Catholic Church by and large was against the Nazis during World War II.

“I read a review of Pacepa’s book and it said exactly what I though it would say: no facts about Oswald linking him to KGB, he would not have survived going rogue and the USSR would have never gotten involved in killing a president.”

Even after he gave extensive footnotes to it, including the historical diary and his having a Soviet wife (which only those affiliated with the KGB would be able to have), not to mention how even his own bosses were pretty sure the KGB or at the very least Castro were definitely involved in JFK’s death? And besides, they got involved in the attempted assassination of the Shah of Iran and even the Italian prime minister, and those WOULD have been the equivalent of killing a sitting president, enough to go to war over. If they could do that, they most certainly could assassinate the president if they so desired.

“The CIA is a hard left wing group. When asked to do tasks that help the left: Arm Castro and overthrow Batista they do a great job. When asked to do right wing things like: kill Castro they deliver the bay of pigs and exploding cigar plots and then leak the details to the press.

President Reagan didn’t trust to the point that he kept them out of his work on overthrowing the Soviet Union. He relied on military intelligence and the NSA.”

They did NOT arm Castro. The Soviets did. At worst, the CIA only gave their allies bad ammunition. And besides, they also played a role in Allende’s execution as well as Che Guevara’s death, which they wouldn’t have done if they were part of the left. If any government department actually was aiding Castro, it was the State Department. But I do agree ultimately that the CIA may not be too competent, hence why Reagan trusted military intelligence over CIA.

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