“It has DEFINITELY been proven that the CIA constantly used the media here. For you to claim that only foreign intelligence agencies manipulated the news is too ludicrous for someone knowledge to claim. “Operation Hummingbird” was the program.”
If they were to “manipulate the media” as you so claim, there wouldn’t be any AWM people due to the media denouncing them as terrorists and having people fear protesting the war, they would have proceeded to publicly denounce Sartre as a psychopath, alongside Foucault, actually sway public opinion, and they most CERTAINLY would have made SURE the likes of Walter Cronkite did not push that we get out of Vietnam. If I were the CIA and I were to manipulate the media, I’d have complete totalitarian control to such an extent that there’s zero chance that the KGB would even push their message, much less succeed in their disinformation campaign. THAT’S total media manipulation then and there. Think S3 Plan from Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty for a good example of this. No, it was indeed the KGB and all those guys who were manipulating the media far more than the CIA ever can dream of even WITH Operation Hummingbird.
“With the Vietnam War the media turned on its allies and undermined the US effort. CIA still used it to spread the “Pentagon Papers” which whitewashed its role in the War.
It had been run by CIA for almost a decade. LBJ turned to the military to try and get their chestnuts out of the fire.”
Apparently, you failed to read the part where the military brass tried to suggest bombing various key supply paths in North Vietnam as well as mine their harbors to minimize American presence, and how LBJ’s response was essentially to throw a tantrum, and took in the so-called “whiz kid’s” advice over theirs.
“Pacepa apparently was a press agent for spreading lies, he did as ordered but has NO knowledge of the KGB/Oswald relation. He has plenty of speculations, assumptions, rumors and gossip but no hard evidence.”
Actually, I’m pretty sure the fact that Oswald had a historical diary (with obvious anachronisms and misspellings and terms reserved for more British-based elements), that he had a Soviet wife, and plenty of other evidence he had explicitly uncovered would qualify as actual hard evidence.
“There is no evidence, Pacepa’s gossip notwithstanding, that Khrushchev’s said anything of the sort. But it is a juicy piece of gossip. Had he any desire to kill JFK no one would know about it other than he and the head of the KGB. Such a plan would have people working to fulfill it who would not even know the ultimate goal. It is all compartimentalized with everything on a Need to Know Basis.”
Pacepa’s boss certainly said Khrushchev said this, and his boss most certainly would know because he was at the meeting where he said this. What, do you expect a tape recording to come out where he says this for you to believe it? Besides, the point of Department 13 was to avoid leaving behind a paper trail. And if they were so good at compartmentalizing, please explain how Khrushchev still got caught with his pants down when Stashinsky got caught in West Berlin trying to assassinate a guy?
“Not only was Che not under the Soviet thumb but he was too big to kill. It would have hurt Intercom more than having him run his mouth. He had begun to doubt the price of the
Soviet “aid”. That was one of the reasons he was exiled. “Let the Americans kill him.” Then he becomes a “martyr”.”
Ah, Che is under Soviet thumb. When he adheres to Communism, he is automatically UNDER Soviet thumb. Even the Chinese during the sixties were ultimately under Soviet thumb. And the only reason they’d even bother using Che as disinformation is if he STILL played some role for propaganda. Otherwise, they would have made sure they Orwellian retconned him out of existence after silencing him. I know I would have if I were the Soviets and the KGB. And don’t forget that Che even proceeded to try and instigate a bombing on Black Friday at New York and would have made him seem like a sunday picnic. What you’re failing to realize is that even “martyring” him would have put a bad stain on the Soviets. That’s why if I were the Soviets, I’d avoid even honoring him for the sake of Communism, because I know if I give ANY support for Che, it automatically would end up being a PR disaster for Communism especially when most people during that time would still remember the Cuban Missile Crisis.
“Stone and Sartre were fellow-travelers and Communists but their roles were not comparable to that of the mythic Oswald, inserted to actually kill a president. Such a person would do everything possible to avoid ANY public activity. That duo were used to spread disinformation but that is ENTIRELY different than killing a president.”
They’d need to use disinformation specifically to cover UP their role in killing a president, GENIUS. If they truly didn’t do it, why go the length to do disinformation. Just say they didn’t do it, and even offer to help the Americans find the true culprit, whether it be renegade KGB elements or renegade CIA elements or anybody. That’s what I would have done.
““Ho, Ho, Ho’s Gonna Win” was the sentiment of most of the AWM that is without doubt and given the political war, was a correct prediction. There is no identity between a sentiment beneficial to the USSR and direction by the USSR.
My belief that we are wrong in Syria and Putin is right does not mean I have any connection to Russia.”
Actually, a lot of the AWM definitely was aware that the NFL and Ho Chi Minh were communists, and the Weather Underground most certainly were.
“There are numerous examples of domestic agents instigating violence, it is an excellent method of discrediting the organizations they had penetrated.”
Yeah, and in case you haven’t noticed, there were plenty more examples of those organizations actually doing those violent acts without any prodding from domestic agents, like the Weather Underground. Even Karl Marx advocated in his writings basically acting like the Jacobins.
“Weatherman was good at killing themselves another indication that it was domestically and amateurishly created. KGB would have trained them as assassins had it wished to, fewer townhouses would have been blown up.”
Actually, the Weathermen were trained under the Cubans and even the USSR. Larry Grathwohl more than verified this, as you can read here (and he’d know, he was one of those FBI infiltrators): https://web.archive.org/web/20130729025529/http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/07/23/death-of-an-american-hero-larry-grathwohl-infiltrated-weather-underground-and-continued-to-speak-out/
“There was no FPfCC in New Orleans. It was a creation of LHO totally. Another smoke out Pro-Castro supporters act.
You don’t seriously believe that Oswald actually believed the Cubans would let him in do you? The first thing it would have done would be to check with the KGB and would have rejected him without delay. And there is NO chance it would let him in after killing JFK, none.”
If he didn’t believe it, why even BOTHER going to the Cuban embassy to get a visa in the first place? If I were in his shoes and I knew they would have rejected me, I wouldn’t go there precisely BECAUSE it would be fruitless anyways. And Castro most certainly would let him in.
“If he was planning to kill the president why the heck would he go to Cuba? Makes zero sense. Another episode in his Leftist act.”
Simple, because that’s either a relay point or the destination. And yes, if I were in his shoes, and I wanted to leave, and yes, if I were a KGB agent, I most certainly would go through that route. And if I were the KGB, I’d let him in and say “mission accomplished.”
Most of your comments are either not to the point or arguing against something I never said.
They border on the absurd for the most part and are based on third hand gossip, totally unverifiable.
And example is the remark about LBJ and the War. I said that the AWM’s chants “Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh, NFL is going to win”, was a prediction that came true because of the political powers here. Not only did I not miss any of that, I lived through it.
The CIA did not have totalitarian control over the media but manipulated it. In any case most of the media was indeed against the AWM until very late.
And no the facts you point to about Oswald is not hard evidence that Oswald was a KGB operative and actually argue the contrary. Where have we heard about a “historic diary” by other Lone Assassins? LHO was only one of several.
It is also ridiculous to claim because someone got caught compartmentalization does not work. Obviously an operation can go bad for many reasons totally unrelated to compartmentalization.
Tito was a communist and not under the thumb of the USSR. Albania pursued a course of Maoism not the Soviet model.
Castro embraced Moscow but did not follow its dictates at all times. Communism has not been monolithic since the Sino-Soviet split. There was an actual invasion of N. Vietnam by China which was roundly defeated.
Again, I never said that the AWM was unaware of the Communism of Ho and the NLF. It was a broad coalition of groups and ideologies, most of which were not Communist and had no love for Communism.
The Weather Underground and others visited Cuba and Algeria on several occasions but there is no proof of training in bomb-making. This is not the same as coordinating strategies.
You believe Che’s actions or possible involvement in terror would have been a bad “stain” on the USSR but it killing the president, an far more dangerous and fatal episode, would not? Obviously it would have united the entire Western World against it. There is zero chance that this was sponsored by the Kremlin.
Stone and Sartre spread disinformation about the nature of Communism and Capitalism not covering up an assassination.
And, no, the USSR would not have helped the US figure out what happened but that was not because of its involvement. Any traumatic event in a Western nation is to their benefit so there is no reason to believe it would have acted as you would have.
Oswald’s act included the NO actions and the Mexico City episode. Had he actually killed Kennedy on behalf of the KGB or with the assistance, he would have never survived long enough to get to Cuba.
Godfather II shows what happens to assassins who could endanger their masters.