Posted on 08/04/2009 7:33:27 PM PDT by pissant
A document unveiled by a California attorney in her quest to determine President Obama's place of birth has been condemned as a forgery by critics who deride as nonsense the challenges that have been raised to the president based on the U.S. Constitution's demand that the Oval Office occupant be a "natural born" citizen.
But those on the other side, who would like to see the original documentation of Obama's birth place revealed, say there are factors that indicate the Kenyan birth document could be real.
WND reported when the document was submitted to a California court by California attorney Orly Taitz, who has managed several of the high-profile cases challenging Obama's eligibility to be president.
Then yesterday, Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., raised the dispute to the floor of that august body, protesting in a speech added to the Congressional Record that the dispute was not worth one minute of time.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
I'd just like to point out something...many of the folks arguing the hardest(this thread and others) that the Kenyan cert is the fake seem to have all mysteriously joined on 10-24 thru 10-28, 2008. Odd I suppose.
You may not even need the typewriter. For a few bucks you can buy a font from this site called P22 Typewriter.
This font is based on the typeface of an old typewriter and it is strikingly similar to the text on the Bomford document. Right down to the out of place #1 where it shows 10th April, 1959.
All of the other ‘1’s in that document are lower case Ls instead of the #1. There is a picture of it on this thread: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2306351/posts?page=6783#6783
Isn't "Loxton" the name of the mother on the Bomford document???
Good point. Users of genealogy sites are generally more interested in displaying vital records for the deceased who have numerous descendants trying to track them down, not living persons. Another thing is that this is a hi res scan. Someone was trying to make it good. A little TOO good.
I do genealogy and my info is private. None of the sites that I’ve seen has info on living persons let alone a BC.
Go to maps.google.com and search on 62 Taylors Road Thebarton, South Australia There (currently anyhow)are no even numbered addresses on that block ranging from 55 to 69. The other side of the street, where you would expect even numbers to be, is addressed using it’s frontage street (Henley Beach Rd.).
You want me to post a document I can’t find? That’d be a neat trick.
Let me try and explain this clearly.
Australian birth certificates have a standard format in terms of the information contained in them. This standard format applies to the whole country and has for decades.
However, individual states print their own certificates based on that standard format (which doesn’t set rules on matters like fonts, or seals, or state crests etc) and those certificates have changed somewhat from time to time as advances in printing have become available and as the need to become more sophisticated in protecting against forgery became more apparent.
What this means is that Australian birth certificates contain certain features that are common to all of them (at least all since World War II or so) but there’s also some variation from state to state and time to time.
The Bomford birth certificate looks like an Australian birth certificate of the 1950s or 1960s. I haven’t been able to find a South Australian certificate to see if it looks exactly like one, but I have found and posted certificates from New South Wales, Victoria, and Queensland that are all in the same general format, and some of those do look similar to the Bomford certificate. Until this time last year I had Victorian certificates of similar vintage for myself. Because it was getting tattered, I applied for a replacement and I am not sure whether or not I still have one of the older ones. I may have thrown them all out, once I had the new ones, although there may be one in a safe deposit box - I’m not prepared to do a six hour drive to check at the moment, especially seeing I have posted images of other certificates that also match the general pattern I am talking about.
Now - here’s the big point I would make. This was an Australian birth certificate format. It is not the same format used in the United Kingdom. It is not the same format used in New Zealand. It is not the same format used in Canada. It is not the same format used in Rhodesia. It is not the same format used in South Africa. (I’ve confirmed all of those myself). In other words, it is not a format that was common across the Commonwealth - if it was, it would not be at all surprising to find that Kenya has also used the same format. But it wasn’t.
So when I see an alleged Kenyan birth certificate that looks a great deal like an Australian birth certificate in its lay out, but doesn’t look like much like a birth certificate from any other Commonwealth country for which I can find an image for a birth certificate online, that rings serious alarm bells for me about the veracity of this alleged Kenyan birth certificate. Now - it is not impossible that for some reason, Kenya did adopt a format very similar to that of Australia - maybe they looked at all the birth certificate models they could find and liked Australia’s so they copied it. Maybe they even asked us to print them for them. They could have done. They might have done. It would surprise me, but it wouldn’t absolutely astonish me.
If so, at some point, I’m sure another Kenyan birth certificate will emerge that looks similar to this one. If that happens, it will be pretty compelling evidence that the Obama Kenyan birth certificate might be genuine. But until that happens, I’m not going to shy away from pointing out that this alleged Kenyan certificate looks like one from Australia - and not one from Britain, Canada, New Zealand, Rhodesia, or South Africa, suggesting it’s not a standard Commonwealth format which would be easy to explain.
Secondly, I find the suggestions that the Bomford certificate is a forgery based on the Kenyan certificate very hard to credit - why would we doubt the veracity of an Australian birth certificate that looks like an Australian birth certificate in comparison to a Kenyan birth certificate that, so far, nobody has provided any evidence looks like a typical Kenyan birth certificate (some people claim they have other Kenyan certificates that look like this one - great, let’s see them).
I don’t like people whose political views I share being made to look foolish. In my view, it is most likely the alleged Kenyan birth certificate is a forgery based on the Bomford certificate. I find it much easier to believe a birth certificate that looks like an Australian birth certificate comes from Australia, than that it comes from Kenya. Because I don’t want to see Freerepublic made to look like it was mislead, I’m going to speak up and say so, and provide my reasons for feeling that way. As my position is largely based on knowing what Australian birth certificates look like, I scanned and pasted the most available Australian birth certificate I had, knowing it was not identical to the certificate in question, but believing it’s similar enough that the common format features can be seen.
Could I be wrong - sure? I’d prepared to risk being wrong though, I’m even prepared to look like an idiot if I am wrong and somebody shows us that Kenyan birth certificates do look like this, if that helps prevent fellow Freepers being taken in by a fake that turns out to look nothing like a Kenyan birth certificate if I am right.
Another newbie telling us not to look behind the curtain.
If even the format of the Kenya BC isn’t correct, WND would need to be outright lying about having seen others from there.
The whole “Republic” thing is a pointless argument. The Kenyans in 1963-64 knew Kenya was headed for Republic status. They didn’t have printing budget to waste. They would not have had more of the old forms printed, and they would not have had new forms printed with transitional language that they knew would quickly become obsolete. They would print “Republic” forms and would start using them immediately once the previous supply was exhausted.
It’s B O M F O R D
Not B R O M F O R D
Yeah.
I brought up that same point last night.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2308435/posts?page=125#125
Which just shows that you just can’t tell from a photo posted on the web what the real truth is.
You need to examine the actual document IF it exists!
On the other hand, if this is ‘fake’ document made from the scanned one, then it would just be one of many clues.
Still not conclusive though.
I tend to agree with you but there is a countering argument: A forger, knowing that he/she should be using a small "l" for a "one" makes a mistake and inadvertently hits the "one" key for the entry in question. Which explanation would Sherlock Holmes choose? Hard to tell.
WOW! Good find!
>>> she comes across just different because she is not an American. I believe with her degrees; she must be a very smart lady.
I’m sure she is. I just don’t want her to become the solitary face of the birthers. we need LOTS of faces.
Funny how nobody gives Keyes the time of day huh?
I just love the way he is able to cut straight through all of the BS when they try to feed it to him, and shoves it right back down their throats.
She needs to take media interaction lessons from him.
So let’s see them - if somebody shows me some Kenyan birth certificates that look like the alleged Obama birth certificate, I’d find that fairly compelling.
One thing that may have passed by me (many things do...), but is there any evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was pregnant?
On another thread, there was a fleeting mention of BHO being adopted, which would explain how some of the Hawaiian statements are worded.
Just checking all assumptions.
One thing that may have passed by me (many things do...), but is there any evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was pregnant?
On another thread, there was a fleeting mention of BHO being adopted, which would explain how some of the Hawaiian statements are worded.
Just checking all assumptions.
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