Obama Born In The U.S. ? New Facts And Questions Say; 'Probably Not!'

Source? Sherlock Holmes | MB26

[MindBender26]

Obama Born In The U.S. ? New Facts Say; “Probably Not!”

Let me be the first to admit that I have been a constant debunker of the “Obama Born Overseas” stories. How could it be possible? How could the DNC, Hillary, Edwards, the RNC, McCain, Romney, AP, BBC, ABC, FNC, etc, (and every 100th listing in the DC phone book) not have checked this out to its last level of possibility?

Well, it appears that they didn’t! Everyone assumed “the other guy did it.”

Forget for the moment all the clues left by the high-priced Obama and DNC legal teams. They are huge.

Obama and the DNC always argue “standing.” They could eliminate every legal challenge in 5 minutes by simply producing a certified copy of the original long-form birth certificate. Throw in the testimony of the Hawaii Registrar of Documents, a few retired FBI chief document examiners, and the doctor who delivered him for good measure.

If they did that in two or three courts of record, in light of the obvious media coverage it would receive, every other court nationwide would accept the precedence and the cases would all be over.

But they don’t. They keep telling the courts, “please don’t hear this case.” No proof of any kind. Just the legalese argument that the plaintiffs have no standing before that court.

That’s so overreaching, it’s like buying a refinery to get a 3000 mile oil change! And one day, some court is going to say…. “Show me the money, er,. ah, I mean, Show me the documents!”

But there is a second, and perhaps new point!

Where is that doctor who delivered him, or the midwife?

Stop and think. The delivery of a half Negro – half Caucasian baby was rare anyhere in 1961. Oriental babies were common in Hawaii of course, but a half Negro-half Caucasian baby with the funny name of Barrack Obama, in Hawaii? In 1961?

Even of you were a Republican, if you delivered a future President of the United States, wouldn’t you call some newspaper somewhere with your story. Or if you were the assistant obstetrician, or the anesthesiologist, or the scrub nurse?

What about the circulating nurse, or the pediatrician, one of a dozen nurses on the 24 hour-a-day shifts in the nursery, one of many nurses on the ward where Mrs. Obama would have stayed for three days, a records registrar, a technician of any kind, hell, even the janitor!

What about the clerks, ambulance drivers….. somebody ?!?!?!

Anybody ?!?!?!

Wouldn’t someone have been yelling their “credit” for this from the rooftops???? The date when he was born is (supposedly) known. Certainly all these (supposed) people would know where they were working then!

Where is somebody, anybody, who was there or even remembers the birth?

Sherlock Holmes once solved a case by noticing the dog that DID NOT bark.

Is this the same situation?

[Red Steel]

McCain has never shown his birth certificate to a court or to the public at large.

He didn't have to give a court, but I'm sure he would have given it to a court without reservation. However, the Dallas Morning News has a copy of his birth certificate.

[Red Steel]

"Correct, but no one questioned it's validity either, and no one had a reason to."

Hey, what do you know? We agree on something."

Are you sure? No one questioned McCain's birth certificate because it was not a forgery like Obama's COLB.

[Michael Michael]

You remind me of this scene from "My Cousin Vinny".

Hey man, don't go dissin' the Vin! ;)

[Michael Michael]

And then, when asked could they describe why his analysis is “nonsense”, at least two have said that they have neither the time nor the interest in slogging through 160 pp of “nonsense”.

If you've been paying attention, one issue, the issue of the seals, has already been discussed. If you'd care to point to something else specifically, I'll be happy to offer comment.

[Cyropaedia]

I personally haven't a clue whether it's real for fraudulent. I know Polarik has spent an inordinate amount of time proving it a phony, so I'll side with him. However, I'm not sure what that has to do with the location of the birth of BO.

Well, if the CoLB is fraudulent, then it means that he hasn't provided proof of his eligibility and most likely does not meet the qualifications specified in the Constitution. There is only one reason people create phony birth certificates: to conceal the true circumstances of their birth.

Creating a phony B.C. is a violation of the law, BTW. That would be another strike against B.O..

[El Gato]

based purely on unsubstantiated assumptions.

Observations, not assumptions. Sufficient observations? Depends on how many "known" COLBs were examined (Not necessarily posted)

[HawaiianGecko]

  "Well, if the CoLB is fraudulent, then it means that he hasn't provided proof of his eligibility and most likely does not meet the qualifications specified in the Constitution."

Who taught you Logic?  It doesn't mean that at all.  It just means the image is not a genuine copy of his BC. Nothing more, nothing less.  BO may not be a eligible, but this damned image has nothing to do with eligibility.

"Creating a phony B.C. is a violation of the law, BTW. "  No one created a phony BC.  Someone may have created an image that does not accurately represent his BC, but a phony BC was never created.  One man's phony BC is another man's art you realize.

It's like saying he created a phony Presidential Seal.  No he didn't.  He created a dumb looking and laughable President Elect Seal.

[HawaiianGecko]

  "Depends on how many "known" COLBs were examined (Not necessarily posted) "   Let's examine your statement.  If it's accurate and I will assume so, then there must be other COLBs and they certainly are not in the hand of rookies or they most definitely would be posted.  (Olympic swimmers and bong's come to mind)

For examinations to have happened, you have to admit it would have had to been done at the highest levels of government, Justice Dept, FBI etcetera.  Therefore, you must be implying that the Feds are perpetrating this Obamafest upon us intentionally.  Is that correct?

[Michael Michael]

Pull your head out of your ass. If your going to make changes to the design of the state seal, then the time to do it is at the beginning of the year. New Year=new design for state seal.

If you're going to change the seal every year like clockwork on January 1, then what's the point of changing the seal in the first place? If changing the seal is intended to be any sort of security measure, then why would you telegraph to any potential forgers that it changes at the first of the year?

Also keep in mind the fact that the seal used in 2006 was the same seal used in 2008, with a second seal used in 2007. If you're just going to bounce back and forth between two different seals, and do so every year on January 1, again, what's the point of changing them in the first place?

Then why do it in the middle of March...? Because they felt like it...? To help commemorate St. Patrick's Day...?

If the purpose of changing the seals is for security, then what would be the point of changing them at any one specific time on a routine basis?

But that's ultimately all beside the point. The bottom line is that it has not been established that the seal that was used for Obama's certificate could not possibly have been used on it.

When you're able to establish that beyond unsubstantiated speculations, and assumptions, let me know.

[Red Steel]

Bingham is irrelevant. He did not author the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. That was added later as an amendment in the Senate, by Jacob Howard, who had no objection to the children born of non-citizens being citizens of the United States by birth.

Who to believe with regard to the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment? John Bingham, or the person who actually authored it?

Oh really? Huh.

Jacob M. Howard: [The 14th amendment] "will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person"

[Michael Michael]

But these are:

Great. But they mean absolutely nothing with regard to the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment as he never wrote it. Nor were those words even spoken about the citizenship clause.

So explain to me, how exactly do Bingham's words here, speaking of something other than the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which he didn't even write in the first place, determine the intent of the person who actually did write the citizenship clause of the Fourteenth Amendment?

[Red Steel]

You better look at post 1030. LoL!

[john mirse]

To Curiosity, Sat. 07, Feb. 2009 6:27:26 P.M.:

You wrote that you believe that Obama has always been consistent in his claim that he was born in Hawaii's Kapiolani hospital.

Queens Hospital is Obama's birth hospital? Well, I found the following information on the web that is taken from the Illinois Assembly encyclopedia, which appears to be an official and important Illinois Assembly document.

"Barack Obama was born at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii to Harvard University-educated economist Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a native of Kenya, and S. Ann Dunham, of Wichita, Kansas. At the time of Obama's birth, both his parents were students at the East-West Center at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. Of his years in Hawaii, Obama has written, "The irony is that my decision to work in politics, and to pursue such a career in a big Mainland city, in some sense grows out of my Hawaiian upbringing, and the idea..."

1. Illinois is a long way from Hawaii.

2. So, I would think that the only way the Illinois Assembly Encyclopedia would know that Obama was born in Queens hospital is if Obama himself told them.

3. The following may have happened: The Illinois Assembly Encyclopedia probably sent a routine personal information sheet to all the members of the Illinois Assembly to fill out, including Obama.

4. In my opinion, if Queens hospital is listed in the official Illinois Assembly Encyclopedia and Obama never tried to correct or change the Queens hospital statement, then I would think it is safe to believe that Obama approved of the Queens hospital statement.

[Michael Michael]

However, the Dallas Morning News has a copy of his birth certificate.

What the Dallas Morning News has on their website isn't anything that was provided by McCain or his campaign.

What they have is a scanned image that was sourced from Donald Lamb, who claims to be the legal representative of the Panama Railroad Company in New York, and who had lived in Panama.

If that is in fact a scan of McCain's true birth certificate, the long form certificate and other documents also provided by Lamb directly contradict McCain's claim that he was born at the hospital on the Coco Solo Naval Air Station.

The long form certificate and the other documents state that McCain was born at the Colon Hospital, in Colon, Panama. Not at the Coco Solo Naval Air Station hospital as McCain claims.

So now, are you still sure that the Dallas Morning News has a copy of McCain's birth certificate? Because if you are, then there's far more to question regarding McCain's place of birth than Obama's.

[Michael Michael]

No one questioned McCain's birth certificate because it was not a forgery like Obama's COLB.

But by the same token, no scan or photographs of McCain's birth certificate were ever made available to the public in order to give anyone opportunity to claim it was a forgery.

[Cyropaedia]

If you're going to change the seal every year like clockwork on January 1, then what's the point of changing the seal in the first place?

Changing the seal provides no *ironclad* protection against forgery, but it provides some kind of protection. There is no "silver bullet" when it comes to preventing forgeries, but that is already a given.

If you're going to change the seal every year like clockwork on January 1, then what's the point of changing the seal in the first place?

But they do change it. And that is preferable to never changing it all.

Look, troll, take a look at post #1000 and try calling the DoH yourself. Find out about the what kind of "seal(s)" were actually being used in 2007 for CoLB's.

Then get back to us with the answers.

[Michael Michael]

Oh really? Huh.

Jacob M. Howard: [The 14th amendment] "will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person"

Yes. We have always excluded the children born to ambassadors and diplomats while residing in the US. This even goes back to English common law.

Obama's father was not an ambassador or diplomat.

[Michael Michael]

Well, I found the following information on the web that is taken from the Illinois Assembly encyclopedia, which appears to be an official and important Illinois Assembly document.

Interesting.

If I Google "Illinois Assembly encyclopedia," I get zero hits.

When I Googled "Barack Obama was born at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii to Harvard," I got a dozen hits. Some of the websites that this phrase appears on cite Wikipedia as the source.

[Michael Michael]

Look, troll, take a look at post #1000 and try calling the DoH yourself. Find out about the what kind of "seal(s)" were actually being used in 2007 for CoLB's.

The job of doing that was that of the person writing the 160 page report, and included in the report, i.e. "So-and-so at the Hawaii Department of Health, confirmed such-and-such. 'Yadda, yadda, yadda,' said So-and-so."

That's what anyone passing themself off as a professional and expecting to be taken seriously would do, and not resort to childish "Do it yourself!" tactics.

It's not my job to do someone else's homework for them.

[Cyropaedia]

UCMJ considers McCain to be an American citizen by birth. When you have two biological parents that are U.S. citizens, and one is active-duty military personnel, and the spouse is a military dependent, then their child is considered to be an “natural born” citizen (under the UCMJ); - even if the birth occurs in a foreign land.