UT: Senate Passes Smoking Ban (heads up Utah!)

ksl.com ^ | January 20th, 2006

[SheLion]

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- A bill that would ban smoking in Utah's bars, private clubs and some workplaces passed its second reading in the Senate today.

It's a major hurdle for the bill sponsored by Senator Michael Waddoups of West Jordan.

The bill will need to pass the Senate one more time before it can move on to the House for consideration.

If it passes the House, it would make Utah the tenth state to ban smoking in bars.

Utah already bans smoking in most public places. However, the bill would exempt hotel rooms.

Waddoups says he wants to protect the health of bartenders, wait staff and musicians who are affected by second-hand smoke.

The Senate is expected to give a third and final vote on the smoking ban Friday.

[NaughtiusMaximus]

Oh what a brave new world these neopuritans will hand us: Sweet as tofu cheesecake, comfortable as Super Walmart, healthy as an airport.

Germans object to smoking bans because they reignite memories of one of Hitler's first moves, protecting the "eugenic" purity of the German people by banning smoking. There were other puritanical moves after this one, in order to remove other "public nuisances." Jews for example.

The liberties you casually deny to others will, under precedents you casually set, be used someday to deny liberty to you.

[SheLion]

In Germany, the liberals believe that it was George Bush who is anti-smoking. They believe that American Republicans are trying to be "intolerant" of others by banning smoking.

I don't think he is against smoking.  In fact, he is against anything that would harm small businesses.  I guess the anti's don't care what he thinks!

"The role of government is not to create wealth.
The role of government is to create an environment
in which the entrepreneur or small business or
dreamer can flourish.  And that starts with rule of law,
respect of private property, less regulatory burdens on the
entrepreneur, open banking laws so that all people
have access to capital, and good tax policy."

President George W. Bush
St. Petersburg University,
St. Petersburg, Russia
May 25, 2002

[GermanBusiness]

In the German city where I live, it is impossible for me to go into *any* restaurant without breathing smoke.

All, and I mean 100% of restaurants allow smoking and someone always tries to ruin my meal by doing so. I have asked the owners and they say it is because, although they wish there was a law against smoking, they cannot afford to have the smokers boycott them specifically.

I, like the majority of people in most first world countries, see this as a huge quality of life issue, related entirely to whether the people at the next table can speak loudly on their cell phones (I actually support this right for businesspeople) or allow lapdancers to visit the neighboring tables.

In places like New York City and Sweden, the quality of life for non-smokers has risen. I can hang around and make new friends now, where I would previously have to quickly eat and pay my bill and leave so I could breathe.

And cigar's don't count. Cigars smell great to a lot of non-smokers if only one healthy person in the room is smoking one.

That is another issue by the way: I don't want to be breathing the second-hand smoke of someone who looks like they have cancer or Aids. I often judge the acceptability level of a single smoker in my vicinity by whether I believe their lungs are diseased or not.

[Utah Binger]

I seem to recalll Utah has the lowest smoking rates in the nation and I don't think all that many bars that cater to smokers anyway.........so why do this?

Think again my multi dot friend..... There are five fairly decent bars in downtown SLC. All are filled with smoke. Problem is, smokers do not respect the non-smokers. Also, the weird liquor laws dictate that food must be served in full-service bars. Try eating when a smoker decides to light up next to you.

[Gabz]

Notice I gave an opinion, I did not make my comments as statement of fact.

[GermanBusiness]

[In Germany, the liberals believe that it was George Bush who is anti-smoking. They believe that American Republicans are trying to be "intolerant" of others by banning smoking.]

You missed the point.

The liberals in Germany believe *mistakenly* that Bush promotes anti-smoking laws and therefore the liberals in Germany tend to smoke in order to spite Bush and his *religious* followers.

The liberals in Germany completely misunderstand that it is the American *liberals* who were in the 1990s against smoking.

So my point was that, where people stand on the issue, ultimately has nothing to do with their politics. In the end, people who are too weak to get off nicotine...look for all the excuses they can get to make their habit remain acceptable.

[SheLion]

The Health Department can regulate what you can and cannot do to the nth degree in many places.

That is in the kitchen out of the way of the eyes of the patrons.  The health department is inspecting kitchens to protect everyone because we cannot see what is going on back there.

A business owner always had the right to serve or not serve whomever they wanted.  People are aware of places that allow smoking and people have the perfect right to go in or not go in.

The health department inspects to keep food free from contaminants that could kill us or make us terribly sick.  But there is NO documentation that PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that smoking or second hand smoke kills. 

All research states MAY or CAN.  Its up to us to determine if we want it for ourselves or not.  Freedom of Choice and all that.

[GermanBusiness]

[The liberties you casually deny to others will, under precedents you casually set, be used someday to deny liberty to you.]

And casually denying the trend of people to democratically implement their right to breathe fresh air in at least one restaurant per city...can lead to denying any trend of people asking for more liberty democratically.

I am all for this to be voted on at the state level. In Europe, at the national level. Whatever the majority decides goes.

[GermanBusiness]

[But there is NO documentation that PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that smoking or second hand smoke kills.]

That is probably where you and I completely disagree the most. Plus, I am not into the colds and flu that second hand smoking propagates. Not to mention having a meal ruined, having to get up and walk to the other end of the restaurant and open a window.

[SheLion]

But the slippery slope is already there. Lapdancing, toplessness...is all regulated. You are not allowed to operate in many places now without a properly inspected dishwasher. The Health Department can regulate what you can and cannot do to the nth degree in many places.

Why are you so hot on lap dances and/or topless dancers?  LOL!  Who cares!  If people don't want to see such activity, they won't go to a nightclub that has topless dancers and/or lap dances.

The 25 meter law...it is because the employees in large buildings had created a gauntlet of smoke outside the main doors that innocent people had to go through just to enter the building. I have written to several corporate presidents in the past asking that the employees don't smoke outside the entrance.

Aren't you a sweetheart?! ~sarcasm  Like I said earlier, the smokers used to have lounges at work to smoke in.  Out of the fray of everyone else.  That wasn't good enough for the ANTI'S.  Then the smokers had to step outside to have a cigarette.  That still wasn't good enough for the ANTI'S. 

Smokers are forced further out in the streets to smoke.  Are you happy now ANTI???

And as long as you live and work in Germany, keep your nose out of American's lives.  We have enough of your ilk right here in the United States.

[GermanBusiness]

The non-smokers *are* going to win on this.

The handwriting is on the wall and nothing can stop the juggernaut of democracy. Laws will be passed because politicians will see what the majority wants. Business owners who now depend on smoking clientele, may want to put some of their current profits into a business that has a future. Business environments change.

Smoking got a reprieve in a lot of places because the excise taxes brought governments so much extra money.

But anyone who has to pay for health insurance premiums will come onto the non-smoking side.

[SheLion]

or allow lapdancers to visit the neighboring tables

There you are with the LAPDANCERS again.  LOL!

That is another issue by the way: I don't want to be breathing the second-hand smoke of someone who looks like they have cancer or Aids. I often judge the acceptability level of a single smoker in my vicinity by whether I believe their lungs are diseased or not.

Boy, you sure are a prissy girlie man, aren't you!

[GermanBusiness]

[Smokers are forced further out in the streets to smoke. Are you happy now ANTI?]

Yes. As long as nobody has to pass on the sidewalk and breathe the smoke. I am an American and I know plenty of Republican business owners who implement these rules.

This is a third-rail issue for Republican politicians. Soon, they will not be able to touch it.

Best to just quit smoking and forget about it.

[GermanBusiness]

[That is another issue by the way: I don't want to be breathing the second-hand smoke of someone who looks like they have cancer or Aids. I often judge the acceptability level of a single smoker in my vicinity by whether I believe their lungs are diseased or not.

Boy, you sure are a prissy girlie man, aren't you!]

So wait a second: You are saying that an alpha male who doesn't let anyone invade his space is a girlie-man for doing so?

I believe strongly that anyone who just sits back and takes another's smoke is a girlie-man himself.

And you are OK with AIDs patients smoking near you? And someone is a girlie-man for not accepting that?

So let's look at macho then:

Macho is defending yourself against everything but allowing an AIDs patient to blow smoke in your face?

[SheLion]

So my point was that, where people stand on the issue, ultimately has nothing to do with their politics. In the end, people who are too weak to get off nicotine...look for all the excuses they can get to make their habit remain acceptable.

Too weak?  I resent that remark.  Who do you think you are to call me too weak?  You don't even have a clue.

Have you forgotten that cigarettes are still legal?  And if what the anti's say about smoking is true, why hasn't tobacco been banned long before this?  Think about it.  Big bucks in tobacco!

[NaughtiusMaximus]

"And casually denying the trend of people to democratically implement their right to breathe fresh air. . ."

Excuse me, but where, outside of a Green Peace meeting, is there any evidence of such a right? Granola muffins cause appalling farts, they make me ill. So I stay away from places where they serve them and from people who habitually ingest them. But not once have I ever advocated that they be banned by law or taxed out of existence.

As Franklin said, "Those who willingly give up precious liberty in the name of temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[Gabz]

......business owners who implement these rules.

More power to them, that is the way it should be, not the govrnment at the insistence of small minded busy bodies FORCING all to do it.

[GermanBusiness]

[or allow lapdancers to visit the neighboring tables
There you are with the LAPDANCERS again. LOL!]

What is the difference, in terms of property rights, between allowing lapdancers and smoking? There is none. It all comes down to the idiosyncracies of local politics in different countries. This is not a conservative or liberal issue. It is simply an issue of what the majority finds an acceptable practice or not. It is also an issue for health insurers to deal with.

Let's discuss health insurance companies. Do they have a right to charge 10 times higher premiums to smokers and order corporations to pay 10 times higher premiums if even one of their employees smokes at home?

I say that health insurance companies *can* regulate that. It is a free world and business owners can do what they want, including health insurance company owners.

[Gabz]

So wait a second: You are saying that an alpha male who doesn't let anyone invade his space is a girlie-man for doing so?

Actually if you are in my bar or restaurant you are invading MY space.

[SheLion]

But anyone who has to pay for health insurance premiums will come onto the non-smoking side.

(I think you are forgetting that your health insurance premiums are going up because of all the illegal immigration).

I am so tired of saying this:  Most of us in Free Republic who smoke HAVE our own health insurance.  You or anyone else will never have to pay for me should I get sick for any reason whatsoever.

I'm tired of talking to you.  You are one of the worst kinds of FReepers.  And it's a pity that our own kind is against us just because we choose to use a legal product.

Good luck in Germany.  Do us all a favor and stay over there!