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Why Women Must Change Too if we are to Rescue Marriage
The Financial Times ^ | July 5, 2005 | Richard Tomkins

Posted on 07/05/2005 5:31:57 AM PDT by Bon mots

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To: chris1

There is a solution, look outside America, market conditions should change that within a generation, that or they'll die off.


301 posted on 07/05/2005 10:05:48 AM PDT by kharaku (G3 (http://www.cobolsoundsystem.com/mp3s/unreleased/evewasanape.mp3))
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To: softwarecreator
I went into a store the other day and all five of the "male" employees were totally flaming!

They're just heteroflexible.

302 posted on 07/05/2005 10:09:01 AM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: Kelly_2000
I agree its unfair to place blame on one sex or the other.

As far as infidelity goes, it's just a function of more opportunity. The most important factor in whether a person will cheat on their mate isn't their morals, and it isn't whether they have a 'cheating' personality (though that's a factor). It's being presented with the opportunity to cheat.

I think most people who do cheat on their mates genuinely don't plan on doing it. A lot of factors come into play: maybe they are dissatisfied with their mate, maybe they had a fight with them, maybe their mate alienated them somehow, and an opportunity to have uncluttered sex with someone they find appealing presents itself.

I think in most cases when it happens, it genuinely seems like a good idea at the time, even though it's a rotten idea. That's why I never understood it when people say 'don't you trust me?' or 'we have trust' - infidelity has almost nothing to do with trust at the early stages. Anybody who thinks so doesn't know human nature.

In any case, I wouldn't welcome back a cheater for one simple reason: the energy I have to expend to try and make that relationship work again is probably many times the energy I have to expend to cultivate a new relationship with a new woman (and that new woman doesn't bring me that baggage).

It's just the smart approach: if I were to dedicate emotional resources say at a level of 80 (on a scale from 1-100) in order to make my broken relationship while again, I can dedicate much less than that (say a 40) and wind up with a fresh, attractive, new woman who doesn't bring me that particular issue to deal with. It's a no-brainer, really.
303 posted on 07/05/2005 10:10:31 AM PDT by HitmanLV
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To: brownsfan; Conservatrix
"You should change your screen name from "Bon mots" to "Bone Head." "

Thank you for the Ad-hominem attack.
I must be right.

When someone resorts to childish name calling it means one of two things:


304 posted on 07/05/2005 10:11:07 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: Fawn
Men screw up the marriage....not women. Women are programmed and capable of living alone.....men aren't. They always want the 'wife' and the 'single life' ---never grow up. Don't blame women...It's mens fault. Woa i think your wrong. How many 25 year old guys want to get married? Zero. How many women? A majority. Many men do end up single for their entire lives. And to call all men cheaters is simply not correct because now women cheat just as much as men do.
305 posted on 07/05/2005 10:11:43 AM PDT by RHINO369
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To: brownsfan

Your guess is right on the money.


306 posted on 07/05/2005 10:12:12 AM PDT by HitmanLV
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To: kharaku

Its the truth. Many many many women laugh at guys as soon as they voice their concerns pertaining to heartfelt issues. For example . . . many women chide the man for his relationship with his mother and how she may or may not act. At the same time, while her mother interferes etc etc, God forbid the man says something.

Its double standards and hypocrisy.


307 posted on 07/05/2005 10:12:26 AM PDT by chris1 ("Make the other guy die for his country" - George S. Patton Jr.)
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To: najida
Maybe that's why I hate housework so much ;). Maybe that's why I have to watch other people around me to get a clue on what a 'healthy' marriage is, what a 'loving' father is or a 'normal' family.

Thanks for passing on this painful story. I come from the opposite direction, having been raised in a loving "Ozzie and Harriet" family. Stories like yours help me to realize how good I had it.

308 posted on 07/05/2005 10:12:35 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Bon mots; Cyrano; shaggy eel

The title looks OK. ... Women do need to change, but real discerning/leader men wouldn't get involved with women who aren't interested in personal change, and then perhaps the women would learn that to gain acceptance from men, it's much more than just dressing sexy and being good at ...those things.

It's funny how we each blame the other sex when it's such an individual thing. I have seen wimpy men, who sit around and whine about how bad women are, instead of just being a leader and doing the right thing regardless of whether 'women' follow. That's the only way to *find* a good woman, is to be a good man. And vice versa.

In the order of things, the men are to lead, and that means in relationships as well. Not all women, and maybe not even the individual man's wife, may follow, depending on her level of 'screwed-up-ness.' But just because one spouse is a jerk shouldn't stop anyone from getting themselves right. (applies to both male *and* female.)

Women tend to be more emotional and get screwed up that way from making clear relationship decisions; men tend to be led by their hormones and visual temptations and that screws them up that way, preventing them from making good partner decisions.

Both have their own individual hang-ups and differing degrees of sex-oriented-weaknesses that we need to learn to overcome in order to learn to see straight.


309 posted on 07/05/2005 10:13:04 AM PDT by Terriergal (What is the meaning of life?? Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him for ever.)
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To: music is math; Kelly_2000
Nope look below again, you cannot possibly have a word with two conflicting meanings

You can, due to the phenomenon of verbicide sometimes as well.

The basic point is to decide which definition we are talking about so that everyone can understand each other. Otherwise we may be agreeing violently, or agreeing disingenuously.

music is math -- good nick. My dad told me that music is math when I was a kid and it makes a lot of difference in sightreading.

310 posted on 07/05/2005 10:15:42 AM PDT by Terriergal (What is the meaning of life?? Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him for ever.)
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To: AmishDude
And that is why they fail. Women don't want a giving, compliant, docile man who satisfies their needs and cares about their feelings. Women want to feel needed, they don't want a man who is needy. The key to success is 100% cynicism. They smell weakness.

Women clearly won't be sexually excited by a man they fully domesticate. That's not to say that they don't want a man to help out - they certainly do. But they will only be sexually and emotionally fulfilled by a genuinely masculine man, and the damn truth is that many men think the way to a woman's heart is to be agreeable and shed themselves of their sexual instincts.

All that gets you is her 'volunteering' you to pick her up at the airport in the rain at 2am, while the guy she is sleeping with is at home, dry and warm. :-)

311 posted on 07/05/2005 10:16:52 AM PDT by HitmanLV
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs
If people live together for life without officially marrying and raise children that way, then it would be hard for me to deny it's a viable family.

Shacking up for a few months before deciding to get married would make marriages and families stronger, too. People don't appreciate what a pain in the ass living with someone can be.

312 posted on 07/05/2005 10:17:40 AM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: The Toll
I'm going to get creamed for saying this but marriage sure seemed to last longer when brothels were legal. It may be a terrible thought but Ms. Kitty may have helped keep the home on the range.

I have a credit line at Madame Fong's Hospitality House out here in Nevada. Man, you are right!!! ;-)

313 posted on 07/05/2005 10:17:59 AM PDT by HitmanLV
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To: Fawn

You have a point - between Hugh Hefner and NOW - both men and women have been ill-served.

Nothing wrong with being prepared - education - my mother was widowed with 3 young children.

But the Ozzie and Harriet family (what did Ozzie do anyway?) should be the priority for raising children.


314 posted on 07/05/2005 10:18:11 AM PDT by Let's Roll ( "Congressmen who ... undermine the military ... should be arrested, exiled or hanged" - A. Lincoln)
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To: music is math; Kelly_2000; Cyrano
activity on behalf of women rights does not imply or mean extreme

That's what I mean by verbicide. The definition of feminism has become something totally else in its application... the application is affecting the definition in everyone's mind regardless of what the dictionary says.

Recently we were accused of having an authority problem when we asked for definitions in a church meeting, so that we would be able to tell if we were talking about the same thing. It's amazing how people don't see the value in having common definitions. You see in every legal contract definitions set out from the beginning. There's a reason for that.

315 posted on 07/05/2005 10:19:36 AM PDT by Terriergal (What is the meaning of life?? Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him for ever.)
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To: Conservatrix; All
You should change your screen name from "Bon mots" to "Bone Head."

Has anybody else noticed that it's always the women who become unglued emotionally and begin personal attacks on threads like this?

Please read my posts on this thread. While you may not agree with them, they have been courteous and to the point, however misguided you feel my points may be.

I get the sense that if Conservatrix is not already a bitter, androphobic divorcee, she will some day be one.

Please refrain from name-calling. It makes us all look childish.

316 posted on 07/05/2005 10:20:30 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: walden; tahotdog
tahotdog: "The basic, simple, biological reality is that women need to be having children when they're 18 - 25 and not when they're 30-45, and they need to be able to do that without having to marry men who are ten years older than they are. "

walden: Why the objection to a 10 year age difference?

Because if you demand that men wait til they're in their 30's to be married, 99% of them will become serial fornicators, which renders them much less likely to ever marry or to have a stable marriage if they do. The few over-30 men who do stay virgins til the wedding, are really messed up by it (speaking from experience.)

Women can wait, if they have to. But men NEEEEED sex and expecting them to wait til they're "old" (and to a hotblooded 18 year old, 30 is "old), is utterly unrealistic.

317 posted on 07/05/2005 10:20:53 AM PDT by Rytwyng
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To: Fawn

But they dont live alone. They live with cats.


318 posted on 07/05/2005 10:21:33 AM PDT by winodog (We need to pull the fedgov.con's feeding tube)
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To: BJClinton
Treat her right, she'll treat you right. Wisdom from my father.

Ask any prostitute in my hometown of Las Vegas and most will frankly tell you that there is one activity they offer that most of their clients insist upon. Married women won't do it, on balance, or won't do it anymore

It would be absurd to think that all (or most) of the men aren't treating them right. There are just some itches that aren't going to be scratched, son. ;-)

319 posted on 07/05/2005 10:21:34 AM PDT by HitmanLV
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To: brownsfan

Pretty soon women will be in the recliners watching the Browns game and men will be fetching the cold beers...


320 posted on 07/05/2005 10:21:34 AM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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