Illegals becoming more violent against Border Patrol

KVOA Channel 4 Tucson ^ | May 31, 2005 | Jennifer Reardon

[backtothestreets]

"The big problem is lefties. In both countries. They would have their say, and our country would be much worse off."

We are so vulnerable to a terrorist nuclear attack along our southern border, I can't imagine it being worse, except that it actually happens.

And the problem isn't only with the "lefties" in both countries.  Had we not so many people on both sides of the political spectrum, and from both countries, but mostly US citizens, heavily vested in making profit from the current immigration situation, the entire atmosphere would change.

[investigateworld]

Having spent time in Mexico, I would have to agree. The corruption begins in family, where the females are sh*t, the oldest male is a god. Even the LA Times, the most PC newspaper in the world has pointed out the treatment of females in this regard. They need a lot of prayer cause nothing else is going to work, I wonder, does this go back to when Spain was a minor procession of the Arabs/Moors?

[backtothestreets]

Your reply is very well thought out and written. Thank you.

One reason, actually the primary reason I believe we would be successful is due to the large percentage of Mexican citizens we now have residing within our borders. Another reason is that the PAN Party, that which Mexican President Fox belongs to, has held as a political plank for the northern Mexican states to join the USA.

The seeds for change are there, and a very large percentage of Mexican citizens that seek such a change, are within our borders where we can prepare them. They are within our sphere of influence. Using this to our advantage would prove most beneficial.

I fully agree with you that a puppet, or gringo government would fail. With our federal constitution firmly in place there, corruption at any level could be dealt with by federal prosecutors.

[investigateworld]

Doh " Post #182 was meant for you. Your thoughts please.
Ajain, been in a few rocks and bottle contests myself. No fun uh?

[Ajnin]

LOL

[Happy2BMe]

Thank you sir.

[Marine Inspector]

I try not to comment about idiots and their foolish rants.

[onyx]

"You know what? I don't feel sorry for the BP at all! They can defend their sorry a$$es anytime; just mow the dastards down! But of course not, take the easy way out; complain and ride in chicken cages."




Here's what I know about you from your posting: you do not have a grasp on reality.

[dsc]

"I wonder, does this go back to when Spain was a minor procession of the Arabs/Moors?"

I really don't know.

I understand that Queen Isabella was more of a power than King Ferdinand, and that was at the time the Spanish finally threw the last of the moors out in 1492.

[JoeA]

SHOOT TO KILL. end of story

[TomasUSMC]

The solution is building more B2 bombers so we can fly them over the Indianapolis 500 !!!!

and build more homes and schools for Iraq and its National Religion of Islam

and let mexicans do the work EVEN blacks won't do

and....

[NewRomeTacitus]

I am just saying that the fact that people object to the amnesty proposals in concert with controlling the border and reworking the immigration visa requirements is proof that the border is not the root issue with alot of these people.

A contraire', mein froind. They (and I) object to amnesty proposals because

1. the first one in 1986 was slowly stripped of employer enforcement provisions by the Kennedy gang, leading to

2. the Republicans succumbing to the corruption of cheap labor over their constituents' concerns, encouraging

3. the laborers bring in their extended families, most who end up a real economic drain due to (legally) unfunded health and education mandates and lower property values by bariozation (retaining negative cultural habits while refusing to assimilate).

4. No true patriots can stand by while undereducated financial refugees flood in from geographically convenient countries while flouting the law ahead of the legions of good people trying to get here the right way from all over the Earth. The current situation is building a sub-class of indentured servants who already have a Jew-hating Marxist faction encouraging them to revolt and kill their perceived oppressors (that's you and me, by the way).

Dedicated medical personnel turn no one away voluntarily - that's why we citizens are cursed with HMOs and outrageous bills to take up the slack.

Your continuing tendency to see our opinions through racism-colored glasses paints you as a person who's been contaminated by the educational establishment's wildly successful indoctrination campaign. "Political Correctness" is a crime against all free people - a scheme asking us all to bind our minds in chains of popular opinion while throwing the keys to independent thought into the abyss. Using those keys to free your mind and speak the truth will alert all the converted to your transgression...turning as one, pointing and wailing like the pod people from "Invasion of the Body Snatchers".

Get tough skin and tell you're liberal friends they're full of it instead of nodding your head. Reject the ridiculous theoretical meanderings of neocons. Join Ted Nugent, Charlton Heston and myself for a weekend steeped in propellant residue and animal gore.

Seriously - you've shown a lot of gumption trying to refute my associates and I respect your professional accomplishments. I can't respect how you seemed to be proud of leaving neighborhoods behind as you gained financial means with no thought toward their improvement. Hey, you earned your way out and screw them, right?

My point is that you can't simultaneously be the heartless free trader while expressing concern for "undocumented migrants" any more than Robert Novak can get away with calling "Deep Throat" a traitor after he (Novak) ruined a CIA person's career to perpetuate his own. That dog don't hunt.

[A CA Guy]

In California, among violent jailed criminals in prison, illegals make up a 50% increase over the regular population.

I think the border patrol needs to be far more agressive for their own safety.

[getgoing]

From a long departed freeper, Fitz, I learned rudimentary facts about politics in Mexico:
Fox is limited to one term;
all Mexico politicians are leftest.

Obrador has a history of helping the people, stood up to Fox & was thrown in jail for building a road to a hospital. Mexico has more billionaires than Saudi Arabia, riches gained by stealing the country blind, picking our pockets, running drugs & forcing their farmers north. It is past time they invest in building their own country.

Quoting one of your links, "The comparison with (Obrado to)Chávez is based on the perceived disregard of both for law and institutions coupled with an insistence on the authority of the 'People' over established institutions". Jeez, wouldn't just about anything be better than the status quo when millions flee every year?

Obrador will win in 2005 if he isn't killed.

[melancholy]

Here's what I know about you from your posting: you do not have a grasp on reality.

Don't scream bloody murder when we're taken over; a reality which you should have a grasp on.

[melancholy]

Sometimes I have the same sentiment. Much of this is brought on by the agents themselves. Our worst area is just outside of Calexico, Ca at a place called Rocha's Truck Lot. My shift has the most aggressive agents. We take our war waggons down to the fence and let them throw rocks then jump out, hammer them with OC spray and pepperballs. We dog them like a pack of hyenas near the All American Canal and chase them till they puke. Needless to say we don't have very many problems on our shift. The other two shifts continue to get schooled by the smugglers because they have this mindset that they can't do anything. They never get a plan together. In these politically correct times, you have to be smart in taking out the trash. Unfortunately we have far to many scaredy cats in the Patrol.

Onyx, a dose of reality from a BP. If you enter one of many other countries and attack the border guards, it won't take long before they start shooting.

[chronic_loser]

1. the first one in 1986 was slowly stripped of employer enforcement provisions by the Kennedy gang.

actually, employers can employ at will in most states, and where they can't, it is a result of stste, not federal legislation

2. the Republicans succumbing to the corruption of cheap labor over their constituents' concerns, encouraging

a socialist response, plain and simple. Market forces dictate the cost of labor (and management!) there is no such thing as "corruption" of cheap labor...., there is just labor and everyone wants to buy it as cheap as they can, so you can sell your product or services as cheap as you can.

3. the laborers bring in their extended families, most who end up a real economic drain due to (legally) unfunded health and education mandates and lower property values by bariozation (retaining negative cultural habits while refusing to assimilate)

I too am against social programs (not just "unfunded mandates," as though it would be ok for the fed to demand them if they would just pony up the cash). I personally wish they would just pile more and more on till they break the system and we could go back to a pay as you go medical system and break the AMS union lock on medical services in the process. Failing that, I do not see that Pablo and Maria are to blame for our dumbass social policies. "If you build it, they will come" translates to "If you give it, they will show up and ask for it." This applies across racial and ethnic barriers. Secondly, I do not see latinos depressing property values. Usually they move in to ghetto areas and the property values INCREASE if anything. I insure a guy (Sikh Indian property owner) who is in essence, a slumlord. He has made a policy of renting to Mexicans because other ethnic groups are dirty, loud, drug filled, disrespectful of personal property, lazy, entitlement minded, and fiscally irresponsible. He says he always gets the rent on time, the properties are well maintained, he seldom has the law over (sometimes they go on a bender and raise some hell, but rarely). His property values have gone up, not down. Speaking Spanish may be offensive to you, but believe me, the smarter ones know that learning English is the way to succeed and prosper. I have learned Spanish to try and accomodate (although I don't do so good). About 15% of our 2000 or so clients are hispanic, and yes, they create about 50-60% of our service problems, due to unfamiliarity with the language and norms. And no, I don't make a pile of money on them, as they are mostly minimal limits liability auto customers. Not the people who want me to invest their money (where I make most of mine). 4. No true patriots can stand by while undereducated financial refugees flood in from geographically convenient countries while flouting the law ahead of the legions of good people trying to get here the right way from all over the Earth. The current situation is building a sub-class of indentured servants who already have a Jew-hating Marxist faction encouraging them to revolt and kill their perceived oppressors (that's you and me, by the way).

Not sure where you were going here.... Not many anti semite Mexicans out there.
As far as the "waiting your turn in line" issue goes, that is the very thing an amnesty program addresses. Trying to deport 8 million or so people because our immigration policies have been stupid just adds dumb onto dumb.

As for me being PC and seeing this as racist, I do see it as racist and the stuff I get on Free Republic reaffirms that daily. NOT that everyone who doesn't see the solution as including amnesty is a racist. And I do have some sympathy with the frustration with a government who just seems to add border control to its already impressive list of screw ups. However, if you check the immigration threads (I tend to do it when I am feeling nasty) you will find a core of freepers in them who are xenophobic, ignorant, bigoted, hateful, racist, loud, and stupid (no need to raise your hands, boys and girls, I know who you are!). I view them as UNAMERICAN no matter how fervently they wave the flag, as the core of what it means to be American is welcoming anyone who wants to enjoy our freedoms, and primarily the freedom to work hard and succeed. Your remarks about undereducated refugees applied equally to the Irish, the Italians, the Russians, and the Poles, among just a few of the ethnic groups who have come in. This "subclass of indentured servants" stuff belongs in the DAILY WORKER or something. I see the American Dream taking place daily as these people work, start businesses, buy homes, and enter mainstream middle class America. Hell, we need MORE of that kind of people! As far as moving out and screwing over my old neighborhoods, I have made choices to live far below my means for some years now. We are actually seeking to sell our house in the burbs and move back downtown. Suburbia is sterile, faceless, dry and boring. Give me an argument with a drunk passed out on my doorstep over some pissy neighbor who is "concerned" because our neighbor two houses up doesn't mow their grass or paint their home as often as he should.

[NewRomeTacitus]

Pardon my tardiness - I've been doing work I'm supposedly too lazy to do. You smeared me as a Communist once, a Socialist twice and complained that I wasn't being clear enough. Please allow me to clarify:

5. Any amnesty, pseudo-amnesty, "not an amnesty" or further overlooking of existent law will result in millions more illegal aliens flooding into an already alien-saturated environment. Invasion numbers were kept to under one million per year until the President's speech promoting "matching willing workers to willing employers" reverberated from the tip of South America and back again. After that the invading hordes grew threefold at a time our government was supposed to be increasing citizens' safety against Islamic fanaticism on all fronts.

Gross abuse happened post-1986 and it's going to happen again if we don't oppose every effort to legalize, legitimize or "normalize" these gate crashers. They're depending on "go-alongs" like yourself to pressure our government to reward them for their wrongful behavior/cutting in line/law breaking. Their presence artificially suppresses wages in the fields they gravitate to, increases disease vectors (where our children in public schools are at primary risk) and burdens the taxpayers with expenses their scofflaw employers should foot.

The vast majority of illegal aliens remain irrationally loyal to a country that effectively banished them, expect us to assimilate to their language and culture in our own country, utilize every devious means possible to job the system (including falsifying and stealing SSI numbers and other identifying documentation) and have the ability to drop out and pop up elsewhere under a new identity elsewhere should they perpetrate crimes harsh enough to force our hesitant police to action. Don't forget that Mexico never extradites.

Where is this amazing place where illegal aliens raise property values (I'm not talking about Americans of Latin descent, just illegal aliens who's burgeoning numbers keep those American's wages flatlined). Pretty odd that the properties in San Diego rose sharply after the border barrier there was seriously improved. In my own city I've witnessed a main thoroughfare lined with traditional, well-kept neighborhoods and thriving businesses reduced to illegal enclaves rife with litter, used car lots, residential over-parking, overcrowded schools, more used car lots, sirens constantly wailing at all hours due to crime and stupidity, gang graffiti, chop shops, more used car lots, native citizens imprisoning themselves in their homes if they can't afford to move...my perception of what's happening differs from yours 180 degrees.

But hey, you go right on ahead with whatever helps you get along. For a person accusing ME of being a Red you share a lot of that "white success guilt" stuff with the flaming Liberals. Impeding people who see the problem and try to fix it does not help any citizens rich or poor. Racists, xenophobes, bigots...call us whatever you like but remember that we are the line between you and those who'd love to take everything you've earned away and redistribute it - the true Socialists of Aztlan and their pets. They are the radical anti-Semites I was speaking of and their connected to every other "Hispanic rights" group that exists. And there's a lot of them.

-Your friend, the drunk on the doorstep

[chronic_loser]

I don't usually cut and paste replies, but you are like me in that your replies are long. Don't take that as a criticism. It ain't. It is just an explanation of why I answer as I do below.

You smeared me as a Communist once, a Socialist twice and complained that I wasn't being clear enough.

If you think I am calling you a socialist (TWICE even!) and a Communist, then it is I who am not being clear. I don't accuse you of being those things. The fact that you are on FR would make me pretty sure you are not, in and of itself. I am saying your ARGUMENT that cheap labor is corrupting is a socialist argument. In fact, it is. There is no such thing as a "fair" wage, which we must protect against "unfair" workers being willing to undercut. The true value of any commodity, be it work, management skills, commodities, finished products or services, is determined by the market. To argue that the market is "corrupted" by the forces which make the market (labor bidding for work) is a socialist argument. That fact is irrefutable. It doesn't mean you are a socialist. It just means that it is a socialist argument. The socialist camp is motivated in this respect primarily by fear that the free market will allow the sky to fall and we need the state to "protect" us from the "exploitation" of the plutocrats. I see many freedome loving posters giving their free market convictions the heave ho when it comes to immigration issues. They look at the PROMISE that free markets will in fact lift the standard of EVERYONE, and balance that against the fear mongering of the socialists who proclaim that our standard of living will be subverted because Pablo is willing to work for much less money....., and they go with the fear. I didn't buy it when I made 8,000 a year and was reading Noam Chomsky. I don't see why I ought to buy the same drivel now. Markets work, protecting us from market forces destroys markets. My sneers about the "subclass of indentured servants" belonging in DAILY WORKER stands. Doesn't mean you are a Communist. It is saying that the accusation itself is shrill, emotionally manipulative, bereft of supporting data, and false. If I want to read a dithyramb on how the evil globalist corporatists are permanently oppressing the starving masses with language like "subclass of indentured servants" (a situation that NOWHERE exists in the USA), I usually go to some communist rag. It was another way of saying "That kind of rant is beneath you. You can do better. Please refrain." There is nothing "mean" about telling you your argument sucks, nor does it cast aspersions on you, personally. At least, it was not MEANT to cast personal aspersions. I want to deal with the next objection in a new post if I may.

[chronic_loser]

Since your objections are covering a WIDE variety of issues in any given paragraph, I again beg your pardon for my method of answering below: I am NOT trying to disrespect or misrepresent you, but rather to deal with the objections themselves in what my poor brain classifies as orderly. That is the reason for the selective quotes. I am trying to group your objections together. If, in doing so, I am not fair to you, please say so.

Any amnesty, pseudo-amnesty, "not an amnesty" or further overlooking of existent law will result in millions more illegal aliens flooding into an already alien-saturated environment. Invasion numbers were kept to under one million per year until the President's speech promoting "matching willing workers to willing employers" reverberated from the tip of South America and back again.

Ok, I will buy that if you can answer one simple question: If an alien seeking to enter America KNEW that s/he could enter LEGALLY under an open border policy (as I stated earlier: "Do you have a verifiable job waiting on you? Can you verify with papers from your government {which we check} that you have no criminal history?"... if both answers are "yes" then you come in on a renewable 6 month visa once you pass a basic health screen)...., then WHY in God's name would they "rush to get in" before some amnesty program takes effect? Your scenario just doesn't make sense at all. Immigrants want to come, and they want to come legally if they can. Arguing that they would rush to get in so that they could stay illegal makes no sense at all. In fact, under the BRACERO program 4 decades ago, illegal immigration rates fell by 80%. http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-imquant.html

I will try and answer further, but I have to go exploit the masses right now.