OHIO: Angry smokers vow to fight cigarette bans

Associated Press ^ | 2-7-04 | John Seewer

[SheLion]

Toledo bar owners find loophole to let patrons light up

TOLEDO — James Pierson sat at the corner of the bar with a cigarette in his hand and a court summons in his coat pocket.

The retired autoworker was charged about a month ago with violating the city’s ban on smoking in bars and restaurants.

That wasn’t stopping him from a beer and another cigarette.

"In reality, I’m breaking the law right now," said Pierson, 62, of Temperance, Mich. "Everybody should stand up for their rights."

Defiant smokers and tavern owners in cities where smoking has been outlawed are rising up to protest, staging "smokeins" and filing lawsuits to overturn clean-air ordinances.

"We’re trying every angle we can to get everyone on our side," said Jerry Zaspel, owner of Barb’s Westgate Inn, in Tacoma, Wash.

Driving smokers away will put him out of business, Zaspel said. "It’s not a smoking issue. It’s a survival issue," he said.

Some bar owners in Tacoma refused to put away their ashtrays before a judge threw out the ban Jan. 23. Supporters of the ordinance plan to appeal.

A husband and wife who ran a truck-stop restaurant in Tampa, Fla., wouldn’t kick out the smokers when a statewide ban on smoking began in July.

The stand won the hearts of smokers, but they lost their restaurant when the plaza’s owner evicted them in September for flouting the law.

Nonsmoking ordinances started becoming popular in the mid-1980s as grocery stores banned smoking and restaurants put in seating areas for nonsmokers.

A California law banning smoking in bars and restaurants in 1994 led to another surge in clean-air legislation.

There have been only a handful of victories for smoking-ban opponents.

City council members in Austin, Texas, overturned a ban on smoking in restaurants and bars in October after business owners said it could have a devastating economic impact.

Toledo bar owners have taken the fight against smoking bans a step further by creating a charity to take advantage of a loophole that allows smoking in private clubs and at private social functions.

"Usually it’s a very, very small minority who stands in defiance and it usually lasts about a month," said Josh Alpert, spokesman for Americans for Nonsmokers’ Rights.

"What’s happening in Toledo is probably the most creative," he said.

About 40 bar owners formed a nonprofit charity called "Taverns for Tots." They charge patrons $1 for a lifetime membership and promise to donate the fee and 1 percent of their gross receipts to children’s charities.

"It’s a very innovative, creative way of doing a charity, and yes, we can still allow smoking," said bar owner Bill Delaney. "Being innovative and creative — that’s the American way."

A federal judge has put a temporary stop to their plan and is expected to decide by the end of the month whether it can continue, but some of those trying to sidestep the ban still were allowing smoking.

[CSM]

If you spent any time at all on these threads you would know that the general attitude of these freedom fighters is fully supportive of the constitution and the basic tenents of liberty and freedom. These same individuals will and do speak out against many other injustices and perversions leading to a socialist state.

[qam1]

In Fact, there should be a Nation-Wide Class Action Law Suit - SMokers are being discriminated againts and being forced in to second-class citizen status for a LEGAL activity.

Oh I agree there is only three ways this nonsense will stop

1) All smoker groups get together, pool their money and file lawsuits on the federal level, A.S.A.P. just in case God help us if John Kerry wins and puts more liberals on the Supreme court

2) Do what they did in Ireland, Every (It's gotta be Every not just a handful)bar and restaurant just refuses to follow the law.

3) Kill all the baby boomers or at least get them out of power

YET: Look at what the homosexuals are doing in California!

That would be great if a town or city in California or New York just starting handing out smoking licenses. You think the Main stream press and government would treat them the same.

[SheLion]

What's the deal with enforcement here? I don't see it.

I had to leave right after I posted this. But you lost me....I'm not sure what your asking??

[Iron Matron]

1) All smoker groups get together, pool their money and file lawsuits on the federal level, A.S.A.P. just in case God help us if John Kerry wins and puts more liberals on the Supreme court


Any smokers on FR interested?

Iron Matron, Smoker willing to take part. Willing to talk to local bar/restaurant owners as well.

I'll need help with this, as I'm not as savvy as most of you here on FR. How do we get started?

[SheLion]

The fact is that the bans have been good for business in Toledo!

Oh yes! The smoking bans are just bringing out EVERYONE that couldn't come before.........NOT!

The private business owners are just fighting back to keep their food on the tables. Not only them, but their employees. If a business is lucky enough to stay open after a smoking ban, then you KNOW that the owner had to lay-off employees and cut back. It's a no win situation for everyone.

[SheLion]

I guess I'm a little discouraged.

Thats ok, Judith Anne. It IS discouraging!

When the state of Maine was forced to go smoke-free in bars and taverns this past 1 January, I had almost given up.

But then I thought "Well, I can't do anything about this ban right now....but I can help chip away at the lies told to bring FORTH these bans!"

Maybe in some way, some higher up lurker will read our postings and see the light and help DO something about the professional powerful rich anti-smoking gnatzies! One can only hope.

[SheLion]

There is already nothing to do in Toledo. Now they want to ban smoking in bars too. Insanity.

Nothing to do?! Well, come to northern Maine in mid-winter! Cabin fever sets in if your not into snowmobiling! And to take away the one pleasurable recreation I had.......going to my local Tavern, having a great meal, my beverage and cigarettes......I can't do it any longer. Pity.

[SheLion]

But God forbid you try to put out someone's cigarette

Excuse me? I'm not sure what your trying to say here.

Smoking a cigarette has been a legal commodity since I was born. And long before THAT even.

Why should those of us that enjoy smoking be forced to put them out? If that is the case, just ban cigarettes and pull them from the market. Would you like that?

To be really truthful, I would MUCH rather smoke that cigarette then do anything that you suggested up above.

[SheLion]

I know SheLion recognized the sarcasm.

I was going to post something, but said "Ah, he can take care of himeself." LOL!

I was just sitting here snickering. hehe! I was waiting to see if you caught his remark or not, CSM!

[gundog]

It's a question of addicktion. :)

[CSM]

It is rather comical when a new name comes into these threads and doesn't fully read a post before replying. This is one of the rare cases where that person is on the right side of an issue, so I will give them a pass!

Your post #25 had me a little worried, but then I realized you posted and went along my marry way.

[SheLion]

Your post #25 had me a little worried, but then I realized you posted and went along my marry way.

Oh! It wasn't MERRY! heh!

But I was going to post something after his comment to you, but I just sat here knowing that if you saw his post, you would have a come-back. I wouldn't let you flounder in here alone for long, if you needed help. :)

[FierceDraka]

It's time to fight fire with fire.

I believe in fighting fire with nuclear weapons, myself. ;-)

[Iron Matron]

I believe in fighting fire with nuclear weapons, myself. ;-)


If enough smokers go CLASS ACTION LAW-SUIT it WILL be nuclear!

Smoking is a legal activity.

Oh, here is the "new" study about smokers (I heard it on talk radio last night, regular news) People who are drawn to nicotine are AGRESSIVE and quick to anger.

GEEZ! WE CERTAINLY ARE NOW after OUR rights have been illegally VIOLATED!

[CSM]

Wow, freudian slip. I wonder if I just might meet a Marry tonight.......

I always appreciate you and the other puffers looking out for each other when not on the board. That seems when most of the cheap shots get taken and I think the group is very good at watching each others backs!

[Iron Matron]

I guess I'm a little discouraged.

Me too. But, I'm going to keep hollering class-action lawsuit and JOIN ME! Until someone does.

Thats how the socialist-dims did it - WE can do it to - and be better at it.

The dims have the country fooled in to believeing they cant fight city hall, well, we DARN SURE CAN!

[Gabz]

I applaud your willingness to do something. The biggest problem is so many don't see the big picture.

There have already been several lawsuits filed, with more in the wings.

However they are all pretty much location specific, i.e. individual states or localities.

There is a group in Texas and the guy who started it is pretty vocal and pretty savvy. She Lion - can you help me out here. Do you have the URL for Dave Pickrell's Smokers Fighting Discrimination? If so, could you post it - I can't fid it in my folders.

Unfortunately the major problem is money - lawyers won't take this type of case on contingency - they want money up front.

NYCClash and FORCES are both good places to start........She Lion's Maine chapter of FORCES is a great jumping off point because she has links to everywhere!!!!!!!!!

[Guillermo]

OK, sorry, thanks.

[concerned about politics]

Furthermore, smoking is just about as close to being involuntary, as gaydom is.

No, there's scientific proof nicotine is addicting.

Homosexuality is just a chosen sex fetish. There's no proof of addiction at all. It's all just "want."
There's a lot of "victim hood" propaganda floating around, but that's all it is. Propaganda for the uninformed.

[CSM]

Gabz is correct (and she looks young enough to ID for purchasing cigs). The key is to get people involved locally and the Forces sight has just about everything.

Shelion, How do chapters of Forces get started? I saw that there is no Mich. chapter.