Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 06/23/2003 2:36:08 PM PDT by Patrick Madrid
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: Patrick Madrid
As I'm sure some folks will be interested in his background, Fr. Ron Tacelli's curiculum vitae is posted at the Boston College website here: http://fmwww.bc.edu/pl/fac/tacelli.cv.html.
He's an *orthodox* young Jesuit, a friend, and very keen on Catholic apologetics. In his spare time he's a professor of philosophy at Boston College.
2 posted on 06/23/2003 2:45:59 PM PDT by Patrick Madrid
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Polycarp; ultima ratio; Siobhan; NYer; Salvation; Aquinasfan; Lady In Blue; fatima
Patrick Madrid (the new FReeper) PING!
3 posted on 06/23/2003 2:46:54 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
Patrick!

Now you've gone and done it -- I'll be subscribing to "Envoy" this week. I'm sure it will be a nice addition to my subscriptions to "Columbia" and "The Wanderer".

Welcome aboard.



8 posted on 06/23/2003 2:58:55 PM PDT by el_chupacabra (AMDG)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid; drstevej; CCWoody; Calvinist_Dark_Lord
Something's been bugging me about this Perpetual Virginity thing, and I finally think I put my finger on the crus of the issue. Thus, I have a stupid question.:

Why was it neccessary for Mary to remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus? Is there something inherently less-than-Godly in becoming one flesh with a lawful spouse, i.e. sexuality is detrimental to righteousness?

10 posted on 06/23/2003 3:00:17 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Athanasius contra mundum!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
Another Example of the Nonsensical nature of the "Trinity"

There are LOTS of examples showing how ridiculous and unscriptural the doctrine of a "God in the flesh" Messiah is. This is just one brief example among the many that could have been chosen. I invite you to read through my New Testament commentary proofs AGAINST the Trinity to find more.

Mt 12:32

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Parallel passages Mark 3:28-30 Luke 12:10

Mark 3:28-30 - 28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Luke 12:10 - 10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. If Yahshua and YHVH (God) are one in the same, why is speaking against Yahshua (Son of man) something for which one can be forgiven but speaking against the Holy Spirit (God, since "God is a Spirit" - John 4:24) never forgivable?

This is yet another case of a clear distinction shown between the "son of man" (Yahshua) and God. The weakness of the Trinity argument once again is exposed since, by saying Yahshua is God Christian pastors would have us believe that if we blaspheme God it is forgivable, but if we blaspheme God it is not forgivable. (DUH?!?!) Yes. Rememeber, Christian and counterfeit Messianic leaders say Yahshua IS God; therefore, the contradiction in the sentence you just read IS what they are attemping to have you accept! You read the sentence correctly, and the apparent mistake in the sentence is actually one of numerous illustrations that highlights the problems of the Trinity position. The sentence is as senseless as any doctrine that promotes Yahshua is God. Like all such doctrines, the sentence defies common sense.

What child would understand a parent saying, "If you talk back to me you are not going to get a spanking, but if you talk back to me you are going to get a spanking." (DUH?!?!) I think such odd parental instruction, if it became the norm, could result in a somewhat confused child. Similarly, most Christians have become somewhat confused children from listening to their Trinitarian theologian parents' twisted attempts to prove the doctrine that Messiah is God using "mystery", word games (ie. Hebrew - "echad" and "Elohim") and other similarly desperate means that all defy basic common sense and clear meaning of Scripture. The result is a "child" (Christians and/or counterfeit Messianics) that has lost the ability to discern and understand simple, direct, common sense verses of Scripture.

The Trinitarians may try to explain away this glaring contradiction in their argument by somehow trying to show how the different aspects of the Son and the Father's divine nature allows this. Well, would they please show me how we can blaspheme any aspect of YHVH? Do they have Scripture that permits us to blaspheme YHVH at all? Absurd. The Trinity argument, when placed along side Scripture, is shown to be absurd.

Harsh as it may sound, time after time the Trinity is shown to be an amazing effort at futility and an unsurpassed example of a lack of BASIC common sense; however, the most remarkable aspect of it is that so many people accept it, despite that fact they have a Bible, which if they truly read, proves the Trinity to be a false teaching!

12 posted on 06/23/2003 3:04:13 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
Oh. I forgot to mention. Now that the trinity is disproven, this stuff about Mary's womb being compared to the "holy of holies" seems a bit silly.
15 posted on 06/23/2003 3:10:17 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; ...

Welcome to Free Republic, Patrick!
We've been expecting you!

25 posted on 06/23/2003 3:28:33 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
I would close with the following question I'd ask them to ponder before they deny Mary's perpetual virginity: If Joseph was a just man and a faithful Jew, if he believed that the God he worshipped, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God who was present in the Holy of Holies, was present also in Mary's womb as Father of her Child - is it really likely that he would have had relations with his wife once the Child had been born?

Yes, they were married couple, its what happens. (see Google search: the birds and the bees. :)

"until" Oh no not again!

Give me the verse or verses in the bible that tells us about Mary's perpetual virginity OK?

BigMack

27 posted on 06/23/2003 3:35:05 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
read later
43 posted on 06/23/2003 4:08:31 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
Welcome to Free Republic, Patrick.

I have your book "Pope Fiction".

51 posted on 06/23/2003 6:17:43 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
Great article! I'm so gald you're here.

BTW, the piece on St. Francis de Sales was lovely.
52 posted on 06/23/2003 6:21:04 PM PDT by Desdemona
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: All
I will be offline tonight, Tuesday and Wednesday. Am in New Orleans with the wife at a Nurse Practitioner Convention in the French Quarter..

Real hardship.

I won't have much net access.

Later,
drstevej (Pope Piel I)
54 posted on 06/23/2003 7:15:06 PM PDT by drstevej
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
That's it....not much of a response. Doesn't say anything new, nothing that hasn't been said here 100 times already. Yawn.

Becky
55 posted on 06/23/2003 7:47:24 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
Welcome to Free Republic!

Great article. Will finish reading it later.
59 posted on 06/23/2003 9:06:22 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
Welcome to FR Patrick.

Let me ask a question regarding salvation. More specifically the plan of salvation.

Does Mary's virginity or lack of change the plan of salvation?
67 posted on 06/23/2003 10:02:56 PM PDT by PFKEY
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
Your books are great! I have them all.
80 posted on 06/23/2003 10:37:02 PM PDT by american colleen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
I have to ask who you have been at FR prior to using your actual name OR how it is that you knew right away how to post graphics, etc. so pefectly here at FR?
94 posted on 06/24/2003 4:19:53 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
Hey dude, ya not posting?

BigMack
193 posted on 06/24/2003 9:20:05 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Patrick Madrid
If Joseph was a just man and a faithful Jew, if he believed that the God he worshipped, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God who was present in the Holy of Holies, was present also in Mary's womb as Father of her Child - is it really likely that he would have had relations with his wife once the Child had been born?

Sure. Why not? I mean, once the Child had been born God was no longer present in her womb, and there's all sorts of Jewish law and tradition along the lines of being fruitful and multiplying and that married couples are to have relations.

I really don't see what the big deal is that it's important that Mary should have remained a virgin once Jesus was born. Before, yes. That's the material proof of the miracle. After, I don't see the big deal. In fact, it seems to me against God's law that anyone should marry to a fertile woman and not have children.

268 posted on 06/24/2003 3:12:48 PM PDT by RonF
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson