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Mary's Relationship with the Trinity
EWTN ^ | January 1996 | Pope John Paul II

Posted on 06/16/2003 8:41:08 PM PDT by Salvation

MARY’S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRINITY
Pope John Paul II

Our Lady, who was granted the dignity of being the Mother of God, is also the favoured daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit

Mary "is endowed with the high office and dignity of the Mother of the Son of God, and therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit" (Lumen gentium, n. 53). With this quote from the Second Vatican Council, the Holy Father expressed in concise form the Trinitarian dimension of Marian doctrine, which was the subject of his catechesis at the General Audience of Wednesday, 10 January. Here is a translation of his address, which was the 11th in the series on the Blessed Virgin and was given in Italian.

1. The eighth chapter of the Constitution Lumen gentium shows in the mystery of Christ the absolutely necessary reference to Marian doctrine. In this regard, the first words of the Introduction are significant: "Wishing in his supreme goodness and wisdom to effect the redemption of the world, 'when the fullness of time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman ... that we might receive the adoption of sons' (Gal 4:4-5)" (Lumen gentium, n. 52). This son is the Messiah awaited by the people of the Old Covenant, sent by the Father at a decisive moment of history, the "fullness of time" (Gal 4:4), which coincides with his birth in our world from a woman. She who brought the eternal Son of God to humanity can never be separated from him who is found at the centre of the divine plan carried out in history.

The primacy of Christ is shown forth in the Church, his Mystical Body: in her "the faithful are joined to Christ the Head and are in communion with all his saints" (cf. Lumen gentium, n. 52). It is Christ who draws all men to himself. Since in her maternal role she is closely united with her Son, Mary helps direct the gaze and heart of believers towards him.

She is the way that leads to Christ: indeed, she who "at the message of the angel received the Word of God in her heart and in her body" (Lumen gentium, n. 53) shows us how to receive into our lives the Son come down from heaven, teaching us to make Jesus the centre and the supreme "law" of our existence.

A unique bond between Mary and the Holy Spirit

2. Mary also helps us discover, at the origin of the whole work of salvation, the sovereign action of the Father who calls men to become sons in the one Son. Recalling the very beautiful expressions of the Letter to the Ephesians: "God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ" (Eph 2:4), the Council gives God the title "most merciful": the Son "born of a woman" is thus seen as the fruit of the Father's mercy and enables us to understand better how this Woman is the "mother of mercy".

In the same context, the Council also calls God "most wise", suggesting a particular attention to the close link between Mary and the divine wisdom, which in its mysterious plan willed the Virgin's motherhood.

3. The Council's text also reminds us of the unique bond uniting Mary with the Holy Spirit, using the words of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed which we recite in the Eucharistic liturgy: "For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man".

In expressing the unchanging faith of the Church, the Council reminds us that the marvellous incarnation of the Son took place in the Virgin Mary's womb without man's co-operation, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Introduction to the eighth chapter of Lumen gentium thus shows in a Trinitarian perspective an essential dimension of Marian doctrine. Everything in fact comes from the will of the Father, who has sent his Son into the world, revealing him to men and establishing him as the Head of the Church and the centre of history. This is a plan that was fulfilled by the Incarnation, the work of the Holy Spirit, but with the essential co-operation of a woman, the Virgin Mary, who thus became an integral part in the economy of communicating the Trinity to mankind.

4. Mary's threefold relationship with the divine Persons is confirmed in precise words and with a description of the characteristic relationship which links the Mother of the Lord to the Church: "She is endowed with the high office and dignity of the Mother of the Son of God, and therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit" (Lumen gentium, n. 53).

Mary's fundamental dignity is that of being "Mother of the Son", which is expressed in Christian doctrine and devotion with the title "Mother of God".

This is a surprising term, which shows the humility of God's only-begotten Son in his Incarnation and, in connection with it, the most high privilege granted a creature who was called to give him birth in the flesh.

Mother of the Son, Mary is the "beloved daughter of the Father" in a unique way. She has been granted an utterly special likeness between her motherhood and the divine fatherhood.

And again: every Christian is a "temple of the Holy Spirit", according to the Apostle Paul's expression (1 Cor 6:19). But this assertion takes on an extraordinary meaning in Mary: in her the relationship with the Holy Spirit is enriched with a spousal dimension. I recalled this in the Encyclical Redemptoris Mater: "The Holy Spirit had already come down upon her, and she became his faithful spouse at the Annunciation, welcoming the Word of the true God..." (n. 26).

Mary's dignity surpasses that of every creature

5. Mary's privileged relationship with the Trinity therefore confers on her a dignity which far surpasses that of every other creature. The Council recalls this explicitly: because of this "gift of sublime grace" Mary "far surpasses all creatures" (Lumen gentium, n. 53). However, this most high dignity does not hinder Mary's solidarity with each of us. The Constitution Lumen gentium goes on to say: "But, being of the race of Adam, she is at the same time also united to all those who are to be saved" and she has been "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (ibid.).

Here we see the authentic meaning of Mary's privileges and of her extraordinary relationship with the Trinity: their purpose is to enable her to co-operate in the salvation of the human race. The immeasurable greatness of the Lord's Mother therefore remains a gift of God's love for all men. By proclaiming her "blessed" (Lk 1:48), generations praise the "great things" (Lk 1:49) the Almighty has done in her for humanity, "in remembrance of his mercy" (Lk 1:54). 


Taken from:
L'Osservatore Romano
Weekly Edition in English
17 January 1996, page 11

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KEYWORDS: father; holyspirit; mary; relationship; son; trinity
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To: Onelifetogive
If God wants us to Study the scriptures for ourselves, he should do His omnipotent part in keeping them free of error.

So all the contradictory translations and redactions of the Bible, the contradictory Canons of books - all this is infallible in each instance?

Catholics wisely do not go so far. We proclaim the Vulgate edition is free of all doctrinal and moral errors, and we have defined what the Canon of books is. But we would hardly claim it to be spot on in all ways, because it is always possible older manuscripts will surface that will newly clarify an old controverted translation or variant reading. At this late date, it is difficult to take seriously the assertion that God protects the making of all these translations.

101 posted on 06/17/2003 7:33:12 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: drstevej
Sorry the HTML didn't handle the formatting well at all. I could email you a pdf if interested. I prepared this for our International Sunday School class.

Thank you but that won't be necesary.

Where in all that you posted is your answer to the question: What is the authority for interpreting the bible?

102 posted on 06/17/2003 7:33:21 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: drstevej
**The virgin conception and birth does not require a sinless Mary.**

"Mary, full of grace"

No room for anything else, FULL of grace!

You are wrong here. "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus."

She was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the most holy Trinity. An abode for Christ, the Second Person of the most holy Trinity.

Yes, she was sinless.
103 posted on 06/17/2003 7:33:57 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Blessed
Mary heard from Gabriel.

Mary spent 33 years with Jesus, who is God Almighty. Puts Moses' 30 days to shame ...

104 posted on 06/17/2003 7:35:04 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Salvation
I didn't speak badly about Mary. I quoted Jesus. He couldn't have spoken badly about his mother because that would have been a sin.
105 posted on 06/17/2003 7:36:23 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
However, Blessed Mary and the company of Saints and Martyrs are in heaven. This is certain because it is the very meaning of the term, saint

On another thread it was said RC theology says the period of time in Purgatory can not be determined.That is why the Pope needs prayer after death.Which is correct?
106 posted on 06/17/2003 7:39:43 PM PDT by Blessed
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To: Blessed
How about Moses. He actually saw God's backside...

Whew! That's one I've never heard before. Can you provide chapter and verse? I'd like to check it out for myself--the scripture that is.

107 posted on 06/17/2003 7:40:47 PM PDT by wai-ming
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To: wai-ming
For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? [is it] not in that thou goest with us? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that [are] upon the face of the earth.

Exd 33:17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

Exd 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

Exd 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

Exd 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Exd 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, [there is] a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

Exd 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

Exd 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
108 posted on 06/17/2003 7:49:31 PM PDT by Blessed
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To: Salvation
***Mary, full of grace***

So was Stephen. He was also full of power which didn't make him omnipotent.

*** "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus."***

To be blessed does not imply sinlessness. In Jesus case, He clearly as as noted in other passages. Mary is not the only person who is blessed (Psalm 1, the beattitudes).

***She was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the most holy Trinity. An abode for Christ, the Second Person of the most holy Trinity.***

I fully agree.

***Yes, she was sinless.***

Isaiah 53:6 All we [except Mary] like sheep have gone astray; we [except Mary] have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
109 posted on 06/17/2003 7:50:05 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Catholics wisely do not go so far. We proclaim the Vulgate edition is free of all doctrinal and moral errors, and we have defined what the Canon of books is. But we would hardly claim it to be spot on in all ways, because it is always possible older manuscripts will surface that will newly clarify an old controverted translation or variant reading. At this late date, it is difficult to take seriously the assertion that God protects the making of all these translations.

I think you have finally hit the crux of the matter.It takes faith to believe in a God that can preserve his word through time.It takes faith to accept Jesus as your Lord and savior.He simply says trust in me not in a man made system of do's and don'ts.
110 posted on 06/17/2003 7:55:57 PM PDT by Blessed
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To: Blessed
Thanks for the reference.

So, according to the scripture, God had/has a face and body? Very interesting.

111 posted on 06/17/2003 8:05:39 PM PDT by wai-ming
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To: Blessed
"However, Blessed Mary and the company of Saints and Martyrs are in heaven. This is certain because it is the very meaning of the term, saint"

"On another thread it was said RC theology says the period of time in Purgatory can not be determined.That is why the Pope needs prayer after death.Which is correct?"

They both are correct. Nobody is a saint until they enter Heaven. Not too many people go straight to Heaven after their deaths (The Blessed Mother did, for she was without sin). Prayers for the souls in Purgatory lessen their time in Purgatory. Once they are released from Purgatory, they are accepted into Heaven and become saints.

I would hope most Catholics know that they are due to spend some time in Purgatory, and would appreciate that prayers (both before and after their deaths) be said for them to lessen their corporal punishment.
112 posted on 06/17/2003 8:10:31 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: wai-ming
Most certainly Jesus Christ fully God and fully man.When he walked on earth he just gave us glimpses of his glory.As this passage shows man could not stand in the presence of God almighty .Read further in the passage Moses had to wear a vale because he was coverd with glory just from this glimpse
113 posted on 06/17/2003 8:11:11 PM PDT by Blessed
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To: Land of the Irish
If the time can not be determined how can you say with certainty they are saints? I think you would agree only Jesus can judge souls.
114 posted on 06/17/2003 8:14:01 PM PDT by Blessed
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To: drstevej
Adopt the biblical definition of "saint" and you eliminate purgatory.

I think not.

And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that had slept arose, And coming out of the tombs after his resurrection, came into the holy city and appeared to many. (Matthew 27.52-53)

The context is clearly the Catholic definition - the just and holy among the dead.

And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. (Revelation 5.8)

And another angel came and stood before the altar, having a golden censer: and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints, upon the golden altar which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel. (Revelation 8.3-4)

The context is also clearly the Catholic definition. Even more so than before, because the saints and angels in heaven are presented as praying to God.

And the nations were angry: and thy wrath is come. And the time of the dead, that they should be judged and that thou shouldest render reward to thy servants the prophets and the saints, and to them that fear thy name, little and great: and shouldest destroy them who have corrupted the earth. (Revelation 11.18)

The saints here are presented as the group among the dead who are to be rewarded with eternal life. This is, of course, the Catholic definition, again.

Here is the patience of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14.12)

That's about as straightforward as you can get of an exact duplicate of the Catholic definition.

Now I know what you are getting at. There is nothing wrong with calling the faithful of the Church "saints" in the sense that they are part of Holy Church, and aspire to live life so as to become a saint. But over time, a more singular meaning has been attached to the word to narrow its use in normal ecclesial useage to that shown in the examples above.

115 posted on 06/17/2003 8:28:13 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
***so as to become a saint.***

EPH 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus

NOT potential saints, or future saints... but SAINTS. I could cite many of these texts describing believers as saints prior to death.

***But over time, a more singular meaning has been attached to the word to narrow its use in normal ecclesial useage to that shown in the examples above.***

Yep, once again tradition trumps Scripture, sadly. We both agree there are saints in heaven. What you ignore is that there are saints living now and that saint and believer are often used interchageably.

Furthermore the canonization of saints with attesting miracles has no biblical foundation and is at odds with the New testament.
116 posted on 06/17/2003 8:39:03 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Blessed
On another thread it was said RC theology says the period of time in Purgatory can not be determined.That is why the Pope needs prayer after death.Which is correct?

Whoever said the Pope is a saint? Do you just pull this stuff out of thin air? "The tomb: I would like to be in real earth, with a humble marker indicating the place and asking for Christian mercy. No monument for me." (Last will and testmanet of Pope Paul VI)

Every Catholic who dies, who is not in notorious sin, receievs a funeral Mass at which we pray for their soul, that it might be released from Purgatory should they need to go there. And at every Mass, we pray for all who "sleep in Christ" that they might enter into heaven. These prayers only stop when the person is Canonized, which is a declaration that the way they lived their life merited that they should enter directly into heaven without passing through purgatory. So those who are canonized when straight to heaven. Among those who are not, some may have gone straight to heaven (saints), others straight to hell (damned), and others to purgatory (holy souls), for a final cleansing before admittance to heaven.

117 posted on 06/17/2003 8:40:13 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Blessed
If the time can not be determined how can you say with certainty they are saints?

In this Novus Church, I can't. I took for my Confirmation name, Christopher. A year later, the Novus Church declared him a non-saint, removed him from the Church calendar and even speculated whether he even existed, and not a valid name for Confirmation. Go figure.

118 posted on 06/17/2003 8:41:25 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: drstevej
***Yes, she was sinless.***

Isaiah 53:6 All we [except Mary] like sheep have gone astray; we [except Mary] have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The Bible clearly says St. John the Baptist (Luke 1.15) and Jeremiah the Prophet (Jeremiah 1.5) were filled with the Holy Ghost and sanctified from the womb of their mothers (and thus were sinless in life, aside from contracting Original Sin). You say Blessed Mary did not receive a similar and even greater bestowal of grace at conception, but that she only became full of grace around the time of the Annunciation.

It is astounding to think that God would bestow such a great gift of a sinless life from the womb on Jeremiah and St. John the Baptist, but not on Blessed Mary.

119 posted on 06/17/2003 8:58:57 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
So the filling of the Spirit makes one sinless? How about the command in Ephesians 5:18 addressed to living Christians?

Clearly in Ephesians 5:18 filling is linked to the Spirit's control (note the parallel to being drunk) not sinlessness.

***It is astounding to think that God would bestow such a great gift of a sinless life from the womb on Jeremiah and St. John the Baptist, but not on Blessed Mary.***

You triplicate the misunderstanding. Can we sin in the womb?
120 posted on 06/17/2003 9:05:04 PM PDT by drstevej
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