Posted on 12/10/2023 12:53:16 PM PST by daniel1212
Partly, by responding that scientific discovery and knowledge does not warrant the premise that the universe and everything therein can (at least someday) all be attributed to purely natural processes.
Meaning that the atheist/antitheist position claim that there is no Creator/God, is one lacking in evidential warrant and requires great faith. For it can only presume that an exceedingly vast, systematically ordered, intricate universe,* exquisitely finely tuned for earthly life with its extensive diversity and astounding complexity, came to be by known (or potentially known), purely natural demonstrable powers, as if it was Divine, without any supreme supernatural intelligence behind it.
And while man- using His God-given intelligence - has discovered causes and means of many things (like lighting) that were once attributed by some to purely supernatural causes, these are discoveries of how God created natural things to work, using laws He ordained, yet which are beside actions for organization of matter, and the programming of it which require supernatural powers and intelligence.
Moreover, rather than a trajectory of scientific discovery leading to a purely natural explanation of the universe, instead, the more that is discovered then the more perplexing competing hypotheses become
and the more absurd the atheistic denial of a creator becomes.For the Christian the evidence comports to the omniscient omnipotent God of the Bible as being the Ultimate First Cause, organizer and programmer.
Moreover, addressing the moral argument of antithiests, God, due to His very nature of knowing what every effect will be of every one of man’s choices - not only for this life but for eternity - has in that light a reason for His choices, including enabling man to make choices between alternatives - right or wrong - (unlike perfect robots) and thus effect consequences, for good as well as for bad, which to varying degrees affect others.
And unlike man, as omnipotent, God alone can make all things to ultimately work out for Good, with justice as well as mercy and grace;
And which Being cannot be judged regarding His choices by finite and exceedingly ignorant man as specks in this darkened corner of the universe, existing on earth in but a moment of time. Despite the ignorant railings of antithiests who essential must presume omniscience in charging an all-knowing God of immorality, while themselves have no sure supreme standard for morality, much less knowing what every effect will be of every one of man’s choices and the ability to make it all work out for what is objectively Good in the light of all that can be know.
Many of which atheists even deny a creator as a hypothesis and regardless of whatever evidence could be offered, as well as for the historicity of the Biblical Christ.
*
2. https://www.discovery.org/m/2020/06/Fine-Tuning-Parameters-Jay-Richards.pdf
6. 'God: new evidence' - the fine tuning of the universe - part 1
7. When science and philosophy collide in a 'fine-tuned' universe
10. We Live in a Very Fortunate Universe
11. List of Fine-Tuning Parameters
12. List of Factors of Fine-Tuning of Intelligent Life in the Universe
13. Can DNA Prove the Existence of an Intelligent Designer?
14. [God DNA] Proves Presence of God” says Scientists
15. 82 Mind-Blowing Facts about DNA | FactRetriever.com
16. 'God: new evidence' - the fine tuning of the universe - part 1
17. Evidence for the Fine Tuning of the Universe
18. It Takes 26 Fundamental Constants To Give Us Our Universe, But They Still Don't Give Everything
19. The Universe as We Understand It May Be Impossible
Is There Any Evidence for Jesus Outside the Bible?
20. Ancient Evidence for Jesus from Non-Christian Sources
21. Is Jesus Alive?
24. Dawkins [essentially] Admits Nothing Can Persuade Him God Exists
A list of 60 aspects are cited as regards the above is https://wng.org/roundups/a-fine-tuned-universe-1617224984
Quotes:
"according to many physicists, the fact that the universe is able to support life depends delicately on various of its fundamental characteristics, notably on the form of the laws of nature, on the values of some constants of nature, and on aspects of the universe’s conditions in its very early stages." https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/fine-tuning/ A listing of such follows.
“I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing.” - Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy) Willford, J.N. March 12, 1991. Sizing up the Cosmos: An Astronomers Quest. New York Times, p. B9.
“Amazing fine tuning occurs in the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use the word ‘miraculous’ without taking a stand as to the ontological status of the word.” - George Ellis (British astrophysicist) Ellis, G.F.R. 1993. The Anthropic Principle: Laws and Environments. The Anthropic Principle, F. Bertola and U.Curi, ed. New York, Cambridge University Press, p. 30
“We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in.” - John O’Keefe (astronomer at NASA) Heeren, F. 1995. Show Me God. Wheeling, IL, Searchlight Publications, p. 200.
“As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known that we were coming.” - Professor Freeman J. of the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton
“The statistical probability that organic structures and the most precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be generated by accident, is zero.” - Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist) Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry in, "Physics Today" 25, pp. 23-28
“The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge, and would be total chaos if any of the natural ‘constants’ were off even slightly. - - Dr. Paul Davies, esteemed author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide University.
“...how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.” - Professor Steven Weinberg (Nobel Laureate in High Energy Physics [a field of science that deals with the very early universe], writing in the journal “Scientific American”.)
16O has exactly the right nuclear energy level either to prevent all the carbon from turning into oxygen or to facilitate sufficient production of 16O for life. Fred Hoyle, who discovered these coincidences in 1953, concluded that “a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology.” - Hoyle, Fred. “The Universe: Past and Present Reflections,” in Annual Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics, 20. (1982), p.16 (for more of these coincidences click here)
“If you equate the probability of the birth of a bacteria cell to chance assembly of its atoms, eternity will not suffice to produce one… Faced with the enormous sum of lucky draws behind the success of the evolutionary game, one may legitimately wonder to what extent this success is actually written into the fabric of the universe.” - Christian de Duve. “A Guided Tour of the Living Cell” (Nobel laureate and organic chemist)
“...The capacity of DNA to store information vastly exceeds that of any other known system: it is so efficient that all the information needed to specify an organism as complex as man weighs less than a few thousand millionths of a gram. The information necessary to specify the design of all the species of organisms which have ever existed on the planet…could be held in a teaspoon and there would still be room left for all the information in every book ever written…” - Dr. Michael Denton (Australian microbiologist)
As regards “order,” from another non-Christian:
“The order of the universe is not an assumption; it’s an observed fact. We detect the light from distant quasars only because the laws of electromagnetism are the same 10 billion light years away as here. The spectra of those quasars are recognizable only because the same chemical elements are present there as here, and because the same laws of quantum mechanics apply. The motion of galaxies around one another follows familiar Newtonian gravity. Gravitational lenses and binary pulsar spin-downs reveal general relativity in the depths of space. We could have lived in a universe with different laws in every province, but we do not. This fact cannot but elicit feelings of reverence and awe.” ― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
*As Albert Einstein observed, " We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations."
“I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing.” - Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy) Willford, J.N. March 12, 1991. Sizing up the Cosmos: An Astronomers Quest. New York Times, p. B9.
“Amazing fine tuning occurs in the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use the word ‘miraculous’ without taking a stand as to the ontological status of the word.” - George Ellis (British astrophysicist) Ellis, G.F.R. 1993. The Anthropic Principle: Laws and Environments. The Anthropic Principle, F. Bertola and U.Curi, ed. New York, Cambridge University Press, p. 30
“We are, by astronomical standards, a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances indicate the universe was created for man to live in.” - John O’Keefe (astronomer at NASA) Heeren, F. 1995. Show Me God. Wheeling, IL, Searchlight Publications, p. 200.
“As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known that we were coming.” - Professor Freeman J. of the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton
“The statistical probability that organic structures and the most precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be generated by accident, is zero.” - Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist) Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry in, "Physics Today" 25, pp. 23-28
“The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge, and would be total chaos if any of the natural ‘constants’ were off even slightly. - - Dr. Paul Davies, esteemed author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide University.
“...how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.” - Professor Steven Weinberg (Nobel Laureate in High Energy Physics [a field of science that deals with the very early universe], writing in the journal “Scientific American”.)
16O has exactly the right nuclear energy level either to prevent all the carbon from turning into oxygen or to facilitate sufficient production of 16O for life. Fred Hoyle, who discovered these coincidences in 1953, concluded that “a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology.” - Hoyle, Fred. “The Universe: Past and Present Reflections,” in Annual Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics, 20. (1982), p.16 (for more of these coincidences click here)
“If you equate the probability of the birth of a bacteria cell to chance assembly of its atoms, eternity will not suffice to produce one… Faced with the enormous sum of lucky draws behind the success of the evolutionary game, one may legitimately wonder to what extent this success is actually written into the fabric of the universe.” - Christian de Duve. “A Guided Tour of the Living Cell” (Nobel laureate and organic chemist)
“...The capacity of DNA to store information vastly exceeds that of any other known system: it is so efficient that all the information needed to specify an organism as complex as man weighs less than a few thousand millionths of a gram. The information necessary to specify the design of all the species of organisms which have ever existed on the planet…could be held in a teaspoon and there would still be room left for all the information in every book ever written…” - Dr. Michael Denton (Australian microbiologist)
For non-seeking atheists, like their rebel master, their denial of God and rejection of a supreme judge even as a hypothesis, their adament position due to their unconscious desire to be as God, as the supreme judge (atheism being a progression of idolatry) rather than being subject to Him.
Thus, they effectively presume omniscience in sitting in moral judgment upon an omniscient and omnipotent creator (at least of the Bible). Who cannot be judged since the choices of an omniscient and omnipotent creator are made in the light of His unique knowledge of what all the effects will be of every choice, not only in this brief time, but for eternity.
And who can - as He promises to do - make all to work out for what is Good, with justice towards the idolaters, and mercy and grace toward those who want what God represents, and thus seek and find The Light, The Way The Truth and The Life, by the grace of God. (Romans 2:7
Hammer orchids.
Prove love exists.
It’s hard to do scientifically as it is the wrong tool to do so.
God is love.
There is a way to prove G-d’s existence. Unfortunately it’s an argument most chrstians have never heard so they keep going back to Greco-Roman philosophy.
Where Did the energy come From ???
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Now That’s interesting!
I’m the same way -—I can figure it Out.
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By the way I did the Air Force as well and Tech school was in Biloxi Mississippi.
Ground Radio Repairman.
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When you See the actual length of A Radio Wave and then tune a set to that Frequency it kinda sets you up to believe in the Unseen.
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You think about that Off Base girl much?
Well we know one thing for sure two atoms didn’t meet in space and made another atom and so on.
my lack of spelliing i will attest to these darn phone keyboards not made for American wide fingers, and/or the sensor not picking up when using that rubber tipped stick.
‘magick’ is spelled that way to distance itself from those stage illusionists.
anything else that i can illuminate for you?
We do?
Which, like as "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7) is employed by pseudo prophets to affirm every spurious message they imagine, so likewise John 14:12 is used by gurus as you to justify their gnosis garbage, esoterical effluence and ectoplasmic etc. experiences, and advertise such which deceives simple hearts and vulnerable souls who swallow such.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:3)
Which as regards you, includes
defining "God as any level of consciousness that exists above the level I am currently at."
* Postmortem "semester break" "lower level of Heaven the recycling level for souls that are growing but have not grown to transcend self or the physical body" to when "our soul actually expands to where the entire earth exists within you"
* "raising your consciousness frequency through prayer and meditation to levels where you perceive directly with your consciousness beyond your physical body," with "actually raising your brain wave frequency above 40 Hz" being "the lifted or raised up Jesus spoke of," and "With enough meditation and prayer, anyone can make this journey to Heaven while still in your physical body,"
* and with "liquid swirling golden Light around the woman" (who did not eat for 3 weeks), as ... "the Holy Spirit came upon her in a lower strength of Light and cleansed her soul for 3 weeks before she was pure enough to be in the Light of Heaven."
* while "Merely touching a sin stored many feet from a person’s physical body in their soul often knocks the person off their feet,"
* and with "the human soul being a dipolar field like the earth.(masculine and feminine). Thus the earth changes are causing souls to be unshackled, This is the cause of all the gender identity issues and high divorce rate in the recent years,"
Which, as said, is too close to such cultists as Swedenborg and the Roy Masters. Edgar Casey, etc. And the demonic psychic healers who actually did heal, including Arigo: Brazil's Surgeon of the Rusty Knife.
But Paul would neither have necromancy nor demonic help in preaching the gospel:
And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. (Acts 16:16-18)And being reproved, in a damnable attempt to justify yourself, you resort to compelling Scripture to support you under the premise of being an elite esoterical enlightened one (thus Scripture must mean whatever you imagine), versus being soundly Scriptural.
And thereby you further manifest yourself as being a false teacher, who,
"preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, " "another spirit," "another gospel!" (2 Corinthians 11:3-4) For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:13-14)
Jesus is my Savior, not because He died for me, but because He was born in the flesh, and lowered Himself to teach us how to follow Him. (This is why 1 John 4:2 is a very accurate scripture) I would much sooner have a lifeguard that teaches me to swim rather than waiting until I am drowning to save me. Jesus was/is a rabbi, a teacher.
There we have it most plainly manifest that you indeed have another Jesus, another spirit and another gospel. 1 John 4:2 condemns Gnostic types who denied the literal, manifest incarnation of Christ, while your lifeguard gnosis guru who teaches you salvation thru esoterical escapes is also "another Jesus" - an alterchristus - anti-christ as John states - whom Paul and the apostles did not teach.
For Scripture plainly and abundantly teaches that Jesus the Christ was the divine (by nature) Son of God, who was born and came not just to teach and minister - which He did - (Acts 10:38) but to die, to give His life as a ransom (Mark 10:45) the promised scapegoat and perfect atonement, (Lev. 16; Mich, 5:2 Is. 7:14; 9:6; 53:1-12; Rm. 8:32; 1 Pt. 2:24) who rose from the dead as mankind's present savior and future judge. (1. Pt. 3:18-22) And who will yet reign for a1,000 years in a physical kingdom (Matthew 25:34; Revelation 20:2-7) till He hath put all His enemies under His feet. (1 Corinthians 15:25)
Thereby the Lord Jesus paid the price the forgiveness of our sin with His own sinless shed blood, (Isaiah 53:4–11; Luke 24:47; Luke 24:47; Col. 1:14 thus enabling being spiritually born (as a child of God: John 3:3-7; 7:37, 38; 14:24,25; 16:7) when one believes on Him with penitent faith. (Acts 15:7-9; Eph. 1:13; Titus 3:5).
And which effectual heart-purifying, regenerating faith, (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9) is that which is imputed for righteousness (Romans 4:5) and results in following the Lord, (Jn. 10:27, 28; Romans 8:14) which is to formally begin with being baptized (Acts 2:38-47; 8:12,36,37)
By which faith the believer is completely forgiven of al sins (Colossians 2:13) being washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God, (1 Corinthians 6:11)and "accepted in the Beloved" and positionally seated with Him in Heaven, Ephesians 1:6; 2:6; cf. Phil. 3:21) and translated into His spiritual kingdom, (Colossians 1:13, 14; cf. John 18:36) and baptized by the Spirit of Christ into His body, 1Cor. 12:2) the one true church (Colossians 1:18) to which He is married. (Ephesians 5:23-32)
And those who die in that obedient persevering faith will go to be forever with Him at death or His return.(Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; Heb, 12:22,23; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:14, 17) “the resurrection of life.”(Jn. 5:29) In contrast to those who were never born of the Spirit or who terminally fall away. (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12; 10:25-39)
This is what the devout Jews - the first Christians and gentiles - were taught, versus mere a teacher, much less your demonic esoterical excursions.
We already exist within Him but are blind and cannot see Him. Only by following His teachings can your soul grow to a level where you too shall perceive and experience Him.
Rather, one is spiritually DEAD until regenerated as per the above, "dead in sins, (Ephesians 2:5) but experience Him via effectual Biblical heart-purifying, regenerating faith - as shown in Scripture, and then is to grow in the knowledge of God, as Scripture reveals and enables. And thereby such are to recognize a false christ and gospel as your proffer!
Some day soon I will begin sharing publically and demonstrating what I speak of.
In which case I think FR management should be interested in what you are using his servers for.
Rather, Step back and study the Bible systematically, by excellent teaching for the human soul actually becomes what it never was or could become thru simply obtaining knowledge, of growing greater consciousness, but that of actually becoming a spiritual child of God thru the gospel you reject via your alterchristus/anti-christ and false gospel.
Please read Jesus’s explanation of the parable of the tares in the wheat at the end of Matthew 13 when the Disciples asked for help to understand the parable. Humans are souls that are planted here in the darkness of the earth to sprout and grow. They are a crop of consciousness that begins as an individual seed and then grows to be One with God. They exist within God already, but are unaware of it. God’s Higher Consciousness is a purifying fire for all things unclean. Obstacles to Love cannot exist in the Higher levels of consciousness.More heresy 2.0. As show, Scripture clearly teaches that before regeneration by faith in the gospel of Scripture, then souls were "dead in trespasses and sins," (Ephesians 2:1) "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world," (Ephesians 2:12) "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ....Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; (Ephesians 2:13, 19)
You are either IN or OUT, and will forever be so when you die. No second chances, and not by "the logical masculine and the emotional feminine consciousness" merging, and and becoming "balanced in their masculine and feminine and bound with Love," with consciousness shifting to "the gamma frequency.. of the mystics" whereby "you become aware that you really do exist in Jesus and Jesus exists in you."
This is the “raising up” that many call rapture. There are many, many levels.
Absurd, a delusion from Hell.
While again, there is growth in grace for the once-dead, but gospel-faith regenerated believer, thank God, of greater revelation of God, and His grace and love (Ephesians 3:14-19; Colossians 1:9-12), and the yearning of mature disciples is to be in character and practice (thru surrender and flesh-mortifying obedience to the Lord by the Spirit (Rn. 8:4,14; Col. 3:1..), yet it a transformative even - not a process - the believer is to long for and look forward to, (Philippians 3:12; 1 John 3:2) that of the "first resurrection," (Revelation 20:5) “the resurrection of life, ” (Jn. 5:29a) "of the just." (Luke 14:14) of believers (1Jn. 3:2; Rm. 8:23; 1Co 15:53, 54; 2Co. 2-4)
"For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.' (Philippians 3:20-21)At which time is the judgment seat of Christ And which is the only suffering for believers after this life, which does not begin at death, but awaits the Lord's return, (1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy. 4:1, 8; Revelation 11:18; Matthew 25:31-46; 1 Peter 1:7; 5:4) and is the suffering of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's displeasure!) due to the manner of material one built the church with. But which one is saved despite the loss of such, not because of. (1 Corinthians 3:8ff) I always reserve the right to be wrong,
While you have certainly exercised that right in being so WRONG.
“I wish I could describe Him for you!”
What are you saying here? Reincarnation? Astral travel?
Can you elaborate a little?
Blocking FM radio has Me Concerned!
/$
Now This got weird...
But We Have a Savior!
Scientists have proven the existence of God...the Human Genome Project... intelligent design.
You would have made a great Pharisee.
There is far more to the soul than most realize.
But science can document certain acts and characteristics which evidence altruism, compassion, affection, and indicate positive concern for the welfare of someone or something, and which testifies to said objects of such having value, and thus a name for such is warranted.
However, science can document certain systems of objects and characteristics which evidence power, intelligence as cause, and indicate purpose, which testifies to said objects having value, but no name is allowed for such evident Cause.
That doesn’t answer my questions except you won’t elaborate and I need to wait for the book?
(1) Is Newton's account of "life between lives" accurate?
(2) How do you see the field developing in the coming years?
(3) What do you mean by "about to get real interesting?"
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