Posted on 07/21/2021 4:40:51 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
End Times Ping
FReemail me if you wish to be added to or removed from The End Times Ping.
Maranatha!
Wouldn’t make sense should Jesus pour our His judgments on those with His Holy Spirit.
Harpazo here we come.
I am of the opinion that there is a difference of interpretation and an actual heresy. To my mind, a heresy either denies Jesus or denies a teaching / lesson of Jesus. The end time prophesies often fall into the category of interpretation and do not align well with the label of heresy.
Jesus taught that no man will know the hour and day of his return. Under that teaching, I believe that it is far more prudent to look to ones own salvation and not worry about the end times. Simply because our own end time can happen at any moment. Car accident, heart attack, stray bullet, what ever reason, can end ones life unexpectedly.
Live as if you have to answer for your sins and rely on the promises of Jesus each and every day.
Thank you so very much for putting this under “Pre-Trib Rapture Caucus,” Roman!
It’s a busy evening but I sure hope to get back to this before the night is over. If not, then tomorrow.
Can’t say “Thank You” enough for this!
May God bless you and yours.
Just as long as you recognize that we are now 46 months after the Revelation Chapter 12:1-2 Great Sign in the Heavens.
I agree we should look to our salvation first and foremost--but not solely.
As Christians, we need to be prepared for what comes our way. It's a lot like that story about the guy stuck on the roof of his house during a flood. We need to prepare to care for ourselves, our family, and those believers who may/will need us when the time comes.
We've been told to turn our plows into swords, and Ecclesiates tells us there is a time and place for everything. I'm not saying we should hasten confrontations, or be combative. But we sure should be ready for whatever may come. Be like the prepared virgins waiting for the Groom.
I am pre-trib, based on the clues available. But the door of certainty cannot be considered closed and airtight.
Definitely there is a difference between Israel and the church, and there is definitely a physical earthly future for genetic Israel. Anyone saying otherwise is lazy.
And there is definitely coming a sweeping up of the church, living and dead. Anyone denying what we see in 1 Thess. 4 is lazy.
When will God’s people be swept up? I think before the seven year treaty is signed.
We’ll find out.
But an opposing view is not necessarily heresy.
review
This caucus designation is an abuse of the caucus rules. A caucus designation cannot be used to hide behind when criticizing or insulting those outside the caucus. One cannot use a Protestant caucus to criticize Catholicism nor could a Catholic caucus be used to criticize Protestants. The very title of this post calls calls those outside the caucus heretics. This is a violation of the caucus rules and I would ask the mods to remove the caucus designation.
I don’t agree that being wrong on rapture doctrines is heresy.
I would say that heresy is anything that undermines critical elements of the Gospel... which IS Jesus... and our salvation through Him.
I think we are ALL going to be surprised about how many non-heretical doctrines are erroneous.
If one believes the Church is the “Bride” of Christ how can they believe HE would allow his Bride to suffer the awfulness of Tribulation?
God’s people are not appointed unto wrath. That is established in Genesis beginning with the flood of Noah wherein the righteous are delivered. Further evidenced by Abraham’s nephew, Lot and his family being delivered from the destruction of the cities of the plain. The angel took Noah by the arm and forced him out saying “I CANNOT destroy while you are here”.
>>> God’s people are not appointed unto wrath.
OH... I agree.
I just think that the ones who have been convinced that we are will simply be embarrassed for not knowing their bible better when they ARE raptured (BEFORE all hell breaks loose).
I have met sincere, bible-believing christians on all 7 sides of these issues. Claiming the other side is heretical is baloney. Romans 15 comes into play.
It would be the equivalent of Jesus beating his wife ...
The pretrib rapture theory was invented by Darby in 1830. The mid-trib rapture theory about a hundred years later. Then came Marv Rosenthal’s pre-wrath rapture book in the 1900’s.
What do these three have in common? To cite but a couple of things:
1. They are all modern inventions of men. Nobody believed such a thing for 1800 years of church history.
2. They all have two second comings before the millennial reign: separated by seven years (pretrib); separated by 3 1/2 years (midtrib); separated by 1 1/2 years (pre-wrath).
Yet the earliest writers of church history, men like Hermas, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Cyprian, Methodius, Lactantius, Victorinus, up to Augustine, taught there is only one second coming before the millennial reign.
Who to believe, these earliest writers of church history, whose belief on the second coming matched that of Jesus and the apostles just before them. Or Darby, etc. and their modern inventions?
As I remember, Marv Rosenthal’s book on the pre-wrath rapture came out around 1990.
The author calls it heresy since he’s dogmatic about his position.
I’m not, but I will say that those who oppose or deny that The Rapture won’t happen don’t have text to back their assertions.
Hence the anger that the word “Rapture” provokes.
It’s a spiritual war remember.
That’s the author’s viewpoint.
He’s a bit dogmatic on his views, but there isn’t any Scripture that has been presented to me to suggest that a Church Rapture will not happen.
There’s at least 2 dozen verses we can refer to and I have multiple times here on this forum.
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