Posted on 11/26/2019 9:00:24 AM PST by Salvation
Monsignor Pope Ping!
One repented and one didn’t. They were juxtaposed.
BTW, in the original Greek text did Jesus say, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” Or did he say, “I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise.”
Punctuation is a killer. :)
God had declared through Isaiah that His Son should be “numbered with the transgressors” (Isaiah 53:12).
Its a fantastic narrative and imagery. God suffers brutally, as a common thief. What prehistoric or pagan god ever was humiliated in such a way?
The thieves Christ hangs with are individuals, just as we all are. They are both criminals, also as we are. Yet these individuals choose to be with Christ, or not, as we must also choose. Even in our humiliated state, we can choose salvation.
Yet there is also the crowd. They are collective individuals. They are both us, and the world. And when the world is given the choice of Christ or Barabbas, they automatically shout: “Give us Barabbas!”
That was beautiful. The post and the video. Thanks.
The repentant thief always impressed me (Luke 23:40-43).
Great post!!
Christ saved a thief so that no man might despair.
Christ saved ONE thief so that no man might presume.
Let’s eat Grandma!
Let’s eat, Grandma!
Exactly!
It was foreordained!
Here it is given in several versions, which all say “you will be with me TODAY.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today ...
Search domain biblehub.com/luke/23-43.htmhttps://biblehub.com/luke/23-43.htm
And Jesus said to him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” New Heart English Bible And he said to him, “Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Aramaic Bible in Plain English But Yeshua said to him, “Amen, I say to you that today you shall be with me in Paradise.” GOD’S WORD® Translation.
Please don’t try to portray the Lord Jesus Christ as a bait-and-switch, bamboosling, telemarketing con artist.
Yep. I find it interesting because my take on the whole thing is that Jesus is talking about the spiritual world from a “this world” perspective. That is, as far as the thief is concerned, it will be “today”, even though the concept is strictly one related to this creation, not eternity.
When I was in surgery for several hours, they put me under. There was no passage of time from my perspective when I was under. That is, I took my second deep breath, and in the middle of the breath I was waking up in the recovery room, several hours later.
So I believe that every
person (not to be confused with the flesh they occupied) that ever lived may be, from our perspective, sleeping, but on “that day”, they will be awakened, and from their perspective it is as if it is happening the moment their body died.
Am I right? I don’t know. Nobody does. And that’s the point. I think we need to be careful to not hang too much theology on figures of speech in the bible and focus on the message. A perfect example is the answer to this question regarding Peter denying Christ: Did the rooster crow once, or did it crow twice? The answer is that it doesn’t matter. The message from Christ was basically, before this day is out you will deny me. The rooster crowing was just a figure of speech to make the point.
If I may jump down from the peanut gallery and butt in here, I don't think that was cuban leaf's intent at all. I think (correct me if I'm wrong, cuban leaf) he was just noting that a comma can switch the meaning of that passage back and forth like a toggle.
And there are no commas, nor any punctuation in Aramaic, Hebrew or Koine Greek.
Which makes me wonder, is there something in Greek grammar, the form of the verb, the word order or whatever, which would determine either the one meaning or the other?
Thank you! Yes, that is what I was saying, generally speaking.
I’ve been a Christian since 1981, but in the last five years I’ve switched some of my own thinking regarding the bible, as the internet makes it so ridiculously easy to study. For starters, and this is a big one. I no longer consider any English language bible to be “the” word of God. I now say that I believe it “contains” the word of God.
We are looking at 66 books, by many different authors and written over many hundreds of years, and in languages other than English. Add to that what kinds of “book” we are actually reading, as well as what information they actually contain, and one is hard pressed to make the case that every word in our english bibles, and ONLY those words, are “the” word of God. I What about the reference I made to the book of Wisdom and 1 Enoch as they are quoted in the new testament, yet not part of canon. But they ARE part of canon in some Christian denominations (e.g. ethiopian orthodox).
The bible is not God. It is the words of men inspired by God, and sometimes they quote him in both the old and new testaments. The most obvious being anything in red. But much of it is simply the words of men. Heck, even Paul says that what he is saying in one place is from him, not God. I worship God, my creator, but I don’t worship the bible. The bible is written by men, compiled by men, and translated/interpreted by men. Men of God, no doubt, but men, nonetheless.
And that last part speaks to why I question why I read an OT based on the Masoretic text rather than the Septuagint, the latter being what the writers of the NT quoted verbatim.
There is so much we don’t know about how our bibles were actually compiled/translated/interpreted, and so much information is now available. And the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls helped. But it is the internet and search engines that really ramped the whole thing up. Some of my beliefs are being turned on their ear. No, not the gospel message. But some of the stuff “argued” for generations is being clarified, and fast.
This is a good thing. Christianity is not being damaged or destroyed. It is being purified. Just as the invention of the printing press gave us the reformation, the internet is giving us an opportunity to home in on the message of Christ and get rid of the man made fluff and dogmatism.
Remember that the Church that Christ founded, the Catholic Church, came before the Bible.
All other churches were founded by mere men.
And that all happened within "historic" time, time for which we have records. We know, with a good degree of certainty, the what, he where, the when, the how, and the who was doing this chain of reliable, trustworthy custody and transmission.
Thanks be to God!
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