Posted on 01/15/2014 5:30:34 PM PST by Gamecock
Ted Haggard, a preacher who stepped down in 2006 from his position as president of the National Association of Evangelicals and pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., following a sex and drug scandal, recently spoke out about Isaac Hunter’s suicide, an event that took the evangelical world by storm last week.
Focusing specifically on the scandals and charges of wrongdoing that have surrounded many famed preachers — himself included — Haggard said that evangelical Christians sometimes fail to properly apply the gospel when dealing with faith leaders who fall from grace.
Hunter, the former pastor of Summit Church in Orlando, Fla., had been facing personal issues since stepping down from his position late last year. His death, following the suicide of Pastor Rick Warren’s son, Matthew, earlier this year, has brought additional attention to mental health in evangelical circles.
“The news about Pastor Isaac Hunter breaks my heart. Great speaker, lover of God, and my guess is he loved the church. But he, like all of us, fell short,” Haggard wrote. “In the midst of divorce with accusations swirling, he resigned from the church he founded. He gave it his best shot, and his heart was broken.”
He continued, “This makes me sick to my stomach. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not sick that he fell short, that’s a given for everyone except Christ Himself, I’m sick that our message did not do what we all hoped – it did not fix the problem.”
Haggard said that, in the past, evangelical leaders who have been immersed in scandal were often seen as not true believers, however he said this simply isn’t the case. In fact, he argued that most people who are in ministry “are sincere followers of Christ.”
While many Christians assume that a conversion to the faith heals all past problems, Haggard said this wasn’t the case in his own experience. While he said that becoming a believer made him “a new creation spiritually,” Haggard noted that there was some “simple care” that would have helped him avoid the scandal and pain he caused his family.
“I was so ashamed in 2006 when my scandal broke. The therapeutic team that dug in on me insisted that I did not have a spiritual problem or a problem with cognitive ability, and that I tested in normal ranges on all of my mental health tests (MMPI, etc.).” he wrote. “Instead, I had a physiological problem rooted in a childhood trauma, and as a result, needed trauma resolution therapy. I had been traumatized when I was 7 years old, but when Bill Bright led me to the Lord when I was 16, I learned that I had become a new creature, a new person, and that I did not need to be concerned about anything in my past, that it was all covered by the blood.”
But Haggard said that his past was still impacting his life.
In the end, the former megapastor claimed that his Christian training was delivered by people who didn’t respect the mental health and neural science professions. This translated, he wrote, into a counterproductive situation, as he was taught to view all issues as being entirely spiritual in nature.
“If I prayed and fasted, I was more tempted. If I just worked in ministry, I experienced relief and was not tempted,” Haggard continued. “I thought it was spiritual warfare. It was not. My struggle was easily explained by a competent therapeutic team.”
Haggard said that he believes wholeheartedly in the Bible, but that Christianity has “abandoned the application of the gospel” and that, as a result, too much time is spent on image management and damage control.
“Every one of us have had sin horribly intrude in our lives after being saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, and God is faithfully healing us or has healed us,” he continued. “Why don’t we tell that? He has never left us or forsaken us when we’ve said and done the wrong thing. Why don’t we tell that?”
Often when the pastor, or anyone else “leads in prayer” they are simply preaching with a “prayer lock” on their hearers ears. It can be manipulative and unauthentic. Why not just lead in the LORD’s prayer ? It is easy to memorize, always appropriate, like Kaddish, and he can’t go astray with his emotions and imagination. Of course, he could substitute other scriptural prayers as well.
Swedenborg never 'led' any Church. He lived from 1688-1772. By all accounts, he was a humble man who was a public servant. He realized no personal gain for his theological works. His Writings have had profound influence in the years following his death.
The Bible is full - cover to cover - with Divine vision... is that nonsense, too?
I agree 100% of that polling
Except I think yoga gives women great bodies and Christ is OK with that
Drinking.... I’m ambivalent.... not a drinker.... moderate or infrequent party drinking is OK to me
So was Gandhi. Being humble, if he was, does not necessarily make one right doctrinally or otherwise. And you are thinking of men above that which is written. (1Cor. 4:6)
The Bible is full - cover to cover - with Divine vision... is that nonsense, too?
That also is an invalid polemic. Having visions does not make them Divine, thus the Bible warns about false diviners in the light of His word. (Is. 8:20; 1Cor. 14:29; 1Ths. 5:21) Which Borg rejects half of as the Word of God, while engaging in highly esoteric metaphorical independent interpretations in the rest, thus your religion holds that God came as a new body of revelation given through the works of Borg.
You tried this and other craftiness before and were exposed . Go back and read, nothing more really needs to be said.
Numbers 22:27 When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam; so Balaam was angry and struck the donkey with his stick. 28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?" 29 Then Balaam said to the donkey, "Because you have made a mockery of me! If there had been a sword in my hand, I would have killed you by now."
I’m not sure but I think so many reject Yoga in that poll because it has some spiritual overtones that are borderline. (That is, not spiritual in a good sense)
I believe you are misunderstanding my posts. I’m not the one who said people should never pray aloud.
Yes, it's called the "love" polemic. If it's critical, it must be rejected.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)
And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: (Acts 14:15)
Numbers 22:27 When the donkey saw the angel
Yes, another specious argument. Since God spoke through a donkey then you can't reject the Borg. But who himself rejects half the Bible as the very word of God, and basically supplanted with his own, making a deified donkey of himself, humble as he is.
I’m not the one who said people should never pray aloud.
Matthew 6
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
The closet is not a literal closet, it is within you, the same place the kingdom of God is.
If ANYONE should know; it would be he!
Swedenborg did say certain books had a continuous, internal sense. He didn't 'reject' the others.
'Led' a Church, 'Reject' books... your slander is based on false and misleading information. You really sound ignorant.
No you did not say that, Its me that said it, i base my belief on what Jesus said.
Someone posted upthread the times when Jesus prayed aloud, and other scriptural references to praying aloud. You might have a look.
Blessings in the new year.
Someone posted upthread the times when Jesus prayed aloud, and other scriptural references to praying aloud. You might have a look.
Hello. Jesus prayed in public, in front of other people.
Matthew 11:25-26
Luke 23:34
John 11:41-42
John 12:27-28
John 17:1-26
Jesus explains why he prayed openly in front of other people.
John 11:42
And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jesus prayed verbally because there were other people standing by.
"Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working." -- James 5:14-16
It appears that Christian intercessors may, indeed, gather to pray for an afflicted person. Do you believe they must do it silently, without communicating with one another?
You tried this already and were exposed by more than me, yet you simply try it again. There was a reason i distinctly said he rejects half the Bible as the very word of God, for Borg rejects Biblical books that in his supreme cultic judgment have an internal sense. And as told you, quoting things from sources that affirm some truths, as Paul in quoting pagans twice, does not mean they are Scripture.
As told you before, Borg himself states in his verbose Arcana Coelestia (10325):
The books of the Word are all those which have an internal sense; and those which have not an internal sense are not the Word. [eph. mine]
The books of the Word in the Old Testament are the five books of Moses, the book of Joshua, the book of Judges, the two books of Samuel, the two books of Kings, the Psalms of David, the Prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi;
and in the New Testament the four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; and Revelation. - http://www.sacred-texts.com/swd/ac/ac207.htm
Consistent with this criteria by which Born rejects sacred books of the Bible, he writes,
Solomon composed the Song of Songs, a book that is not a sacred one because it does not inwardly contain heavenly and Divine matters forming a continuous train of thought, such as sacred books contain.- Arcana Coelestia (Elliott) n. 9942 http://www.e-swedenborg.com/writings/static/d8086/9942.htm
And the Borg did and does lead a church, the "new church," as even while he did not personally establish it, yet he foretold it, prepared for it, and his words required it, and is the leader of it thru his teachings that they follow it. However, Christians follow Christ, who foretold of His church, and began it after his resurrection, and whom real believers follow thru the Scriptures. Borg is simply another deluded antiChrist. May God grant you repentance unto surrender to Christ the Lord.
"t will be seen that there is not a single genuine truth remaining in the church, and also that unless a new church shall be raised up in the place of the present one..." "...the beginning of a new church, is now at hand." " " ..there is at this day an end of the former church and the beginning of a new church.." "Also that blessed are those that come to the marriage supper of the Lamb (Rev. 19:9). This took place on the nineteenth day of June, 1770". - Swedenborg, "True Christian Religion;" http://www.sacred-texts.com/swd/tcr/tcr16.htm
You really sound ignorant.
Self application.
OK, so I don’t see the problem here, if Jesus prayed aloud, and the Book of James says,
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
John 11:42
And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
It appears that Christian intercessors may, indeed, gather to pray for an afflicted person. Do you believe they must do it silently, without communicating with one another?
I do not believe they must but i believe it is much more inline with what Jesus said on the matter.
Yes, they can talk verbally to each other but have silent prayer
And yes Jesus prayed out loud a few times and he explained why he did it, although he owes me no explanation.
And you can pray how ever you want, i don,t think there would be any penalty for it but Jesus told his apostles not to do as the hypocrites did.
James 5:14-16
yes, to confess your sins to one another we would have to be verbal but to pray to God for each other we would not,
because God reads that which we think.
bttt
I ‘m not understanding, by your repetition of the same verses, an answer to the question posed to you. Are you saying that your religion prohibits intercessory prayer spoken aloud in a group, or not?
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