Posted on 07/26/2011 6:38:10 AM PDT by marshmallow
Article can not be posted due to copyright issues but if you clink on this link you can read all about it.
You still haven’t answered the question: Do you believe that during sleep, we spontaneously die and then spontaneously come back to life?
If a doctrine is not supported by Scripture (e.g., Purgatory), then no amount of “experience” will prove it to be orthodox.
Regardless this person’s experience, the concept Purgatory defames Jesus Christ; it is a false doctrine.
You cannot speak for God and do not know how He takes people to visit heaven. I have done a bit of research on the subject, and there are many near death experiencers who were under the knife and saw things happening in the hospital that they described and simply could not know unless they were hovering above. The little boy who recently wrote a book about his NDE is one good example. I cannot remember the title right now.
That book was actually written by the boy’s father, some time after the events purportedly took place. There are a number of “experiences” in that book that are clearly unbiblical. So we must either reject the veracity of Scripture, or the veracity of elements of these “experiences.”
As for me, I will continue to trust Scripture to shape my doctrine.
Hey Lazurus! What was it like; On The Other Side?
John 11:1-40
Hey Tabitha! What was it like; On The Other Side?
Mark 5:41
Hey Widow’s son! What was it like; On The Other Side?
Mark 5:41
Hey All of you FOLKS! What was it like; On The Other Side?
Matthew 27:52
Hey Lazurus! What was it like; On The Other Side?
John 11:1-40
Hey Tabitha! What was it like; On The Other Side?
Mark 5:41
Hey Widow’s son! What was it like; On The Other Side?
1Ki 17:23
Hey All of you FOLKS! What was it like; On The Other Side?
Matthew 27:52
However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
I happen to think this is STILL true: that NONE have seen, heard, imagined or DREAMED what Heaven is going to be like
No we do not die, and of course brainwave activity does not stop either, as rem sleep shows during dreaming. Now, want to give us a whirl on how dreaming can occur without brainwave activity? ... Yeah, I didn’t think so.
“There are procedures, like you say, in which all the circulation is stopped, but he didn’t undergo one of those procedures....”
Hmmm. The story didn’t specify what procedure he underwent, so I’m wondering how you know this?
If you'd read my previous posts, you know that there is brain activity in at least some cases, as people who have undergone this procedure have told the doctors about what went on in the operating room while they were "out". Apparently, the equipment they use to measure brain activity in these scenarios is either not working properly, or there can be brain activity that is at too low a level to be measured.
And yes, if a person can be aware of what is going on in his/her surroundings, then a person can also have enough brain activity to dream.
Further, there are numerous reports of hallucinations that have occurred during these procedures. Some are religious in nature, some are not.
Do the research yourself if you like. It wasn't all that hard.
Because the article says specifically they only stopped circulation to his heart, which means they must have put him on a heart-lung machine, to keep the circulation going in the rest of his body.
Yes. Just google "hallucinations during deep hypothermic circulatory arrest". Not hard to find all kinds of info.
I've read about near death experiences before, so the information at the link you provide is nothing new.
Salvation, have you by chance read this book? If so, what are your thoughts?
Yes, I have read it. The accounts seem credible and the doctor’s analysis is quite lengthy. Toward the end I started skipping the doctor’s medical info and just read about the NDEs.
When things get verified in the book — it is astounding. Once example is the surgeon coming to the patient’s room the next day and saying “That was the best surgery I ever did.” (paraphrased) The patient then told him that there was an angel beside every medical person guiding hands and minds. The patient was able to view all this while hovering over his own body and watching the operation.
Wow!
I don’t doubt that this man is earnest and is telling the truth about his experience as he recalls it. I am surprised at how poorly read he is Biblically, though.
My understanding of the Catholic Purgatory would have it be very similar to the Jewish Sheol. This man’s description of his experience does sound remarkably like being “gathered unto his people” in paradise, which was a level of Sheol. He even uses the word “paradise.”
But. this man’s account, of seeing wandering “souls” outside the hospital window after apparently returning from this paradise, while still clinically dead, does not in any way equate to any concept of either Purgatory or Sheol, none that I’ve ever read about at least.
Earthbound spirits are demonic, from a purely Biblical standpoint. To be absent the body is to be in the presence of the Lord, spiritually. The soul is in the blood, according to Leviticus. Soul and spirit are not synonymous, and neither are wandering around on Earth after death.
Seek out Biblical passages in the original language(s) to find out for yourselves.
Uh; that isn 't EXACTLY what the scripture says:
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Seek out Biblical passages in the original language(s) to find out for yourselves.
Did I purport to cite any particular passage verbatim, Elsie, or did I wish to impart the understanding that is repeatedy stated in the Bible?
By way of an answer, I will thank you for validating my statement.
BTW, according to science, absent brain waves/brain activity there are no dreams. Yet the testimony of real and sincere people indicates they 'remember' something that happened to them while in a brain waves-less state. Having the last word seem very important to you so I will withdraw from this thread and leave you to your needs.
Bump
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