Posted on 07/04/2011 10:00:42 PM PDT by TheDingoAteMyBaby
The debate among evangelical Christians over Darwin's theory of evolution has returned to front stage this summer with the publication of two separate cover stories on the issue by leading Christian magazines.
In its June cover story, Christianity Today reported on how Christian proponents of Darwin are challenging historic beliefs about Adam and Eve.
Now Christian news magazine World has announced that it will name two books critiquing "theistic evolution" as its "Books of the Year" in its upcoming July 2 issue. World called the evolution debate in churches and religious colleges "the biggest current battle both among Christians and between Christian and anti-Christian thought."
One of the two books honored by World is God and Evolution: Protestants, Catholics, and Jews Explore Darwin's Challenge to Faith (Discovery Institute Press, 2010).
The book's editor, Dr. Jay Richards, commented, "We wanted to clear away the fog and fuzzy-thinking on this issue. Our book makes clear that to the degree theistic evolution is theistic, it will not be fully Darwinian. And to the degree that it is Darwinian, it will fail fully to preserve traditional theism."
God and Evolution features essays by Protestant, Catholic and Jewish scholars critical of the growing effort by advocates of theistic evolution such as Francis Collins to persuade leaders of the faith community to change their theology without hearing from scientists who are skeptical of the claims of unguided Darwinian evolution.
"Over the past couple of years, Collins has convened large closed-door meetings of evangelical Christian leaders to convince them to embrace theistic evolution," said Dr. John West, who wrote the first two chapters of God and Evolution.
"These gatherings intentionally excluded any scientists who were critical of Darwin's theory of unguided evolution. Collins has said that he wants to foster dialogue on this issue, but excluding scholars who dissent from Darwin from the conversation is a recipe for monologue, not dialogue."
For more information visit www.faithandevolution.org
SOURCE Discovery Institute
Just because your religion is 'willfully ignorant' about the scriptures doesn't mean that those who study the scriptures are Gnostics...
> Are you trying to tell us that the first thing God did
> was create a world that was a total mess?
Without form simply means it was yet to be formed.
Void means empty.
And it wasn’t until God FINISHED His Creation that He called it Very Good.
Certainly you already knew this, unless you are ignorant of the text.
When you create and hand down doctrine from the LaZBoy Throne of Sunday Sports Theology in the Church of Iscool (population one), does it really matter what you find in the Bible?
When you create and hand down doctrine from the LaZBoy Throne of Sunday Sports Theology in the Church of Iscool (population one), does it really matter what you find in the Bible?
The proof that your interpretation is wrong is that God does not lie. Rather than trying to shape the physical evidence to your interpretation try shaping your interpretation to the facts. Remember that God created the laws of science as surely as he did the heavens, earth, and creatures that they control.
Even better, I actually understand Scripture. I realizes that that puts you at a significant disadvantage, however I will attempt to debate you in words of one syllable or less in order to more level the field.
CynicalBear there are all kinds of attempts to reconcile 15.75 [or is it now 13.7?] billion years for the age of the universe and 3-4 billion for Earth and life. There are several mathematical and population problems with millions and billions of years for life to appear gradually. My opinion is Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 are simply a re-telling of creation week.
My favored explanation for ages of light and stars is:
Dr. Russell Humphreys book “Starlight and Time”
His theory posits the apparent speed of light/time supernaturally differed during the Creation week where God expanded the Earth and Universe out of nothing [ex nihilo].
A simplified explanation equates this apparent light speed moving supernaturally at:
Day1: 8 billion light years
2nd : 4b “”
3rd : 2b “”
4th : 1b “”
5th : 0.5b “”
6th : 0.25b “”
Come, come, it will not do to refer to the heads of the obtuse as 'void'. Unless you also include 'null'.
And it wasn’t until God FINISHED His Creation that He called it Very Good.
You mean that He didn't have graduations of accomplishment that he reports out to the various cult leaders for their amusement and edification?
Certainly you already knew this, unless you are ignorant of the text.
Certain of our friends confuse 'ignorant' and 'stupid'.
Umm, you realize that ‘light year’ is a measure of distance and not time...
NL what’s your explanation for the 101 natural clocks that differ greatly with the only ones for long ages?
1.) Starlight - see my prior post.
2.) Radioactive decay rates - when anomolies and assumptions are clearly stated this dating method leaves a lot to be desired. Logic dictates it must be abandoned rather than explain the other 101 clocks problems.
3.) Fossil and geologic sediment layers aging method uses circular logic to point back to the each other for age verification.
The history of mankind and all his understanding leaves the door wide open for mis-interpretations of all God’s Laws for each and every generation so stop saying “God does not lie” and then completely contradict his very Word - the Holy Bible.
False dichotomy much?
Oh I know the text rather well. I’ve been studying that since I was about 16 years old and I’m now near 63. I had a problem with the 6-7000 yr age of the earth taught in churches with poor explanations for dinosaurs etc. and the disparity between science and the scriptures.
The words used are Tohu wa bohu, translated formless, vain or waste and empty.
If you believe that Genesis 1:1 is the first time God did anything with this world you have to believe that the world was created a mess. Bara is the Greek word used in means to create from nothing. The other word translated create is Asah which means to make something out of ingredients already existing.
Here’s a translation of Genesis 1:1-2
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was (hayah = became) without form (tohu), and void ( bohu ); and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
It became without form and void.
That post to me makes no sense.
So-called "natural clocks" are merely phenomena that keep time in some way as an incidental characteristic. Physics does not suggest a uniformly linear time scale nor are any of the known natural clocks are immune from variation from external stimuli.
Can you point to any statistically supported Measurement System Analysis performed on any of these natural clocks based upon an absolute starting condition? I didn’t think so. Remember, that the orbital and rotational frequencies of the earth are natural clocks that also have considerable variation and their initial states are largely theoretical.
People of faith should not be afraid that science is challenging the authority of the Bible. Science only reveals the greatness of God’s creation demonstrated in its precision and complexity.
Now don’t have a cow man -
but true science agrees w/ God’s word.
Not contradiction but confirmation!
A simplified explanation equates this apparent light speed moving supernaturally at:And Hans Solo made the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs.
Day1: 8 billion light years
2nd : 4b “”
3rd : 2b “”
4th : 1b “”
5th : 0.5b “”
6th : 0.25b “”
Total: 15.75 billion light years giver or take how many more or less 6000 more year of civilization affects the bottom line.
But the problem is -- for both George Lucas and Russel Humphreys -- is that a parsec, like a lightyear, is a measure of DISTANCE, not TIME.
Void means empty.
And empty means that there was no water...There was nothing...
And somewhere after the semi-colon in Gen 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Apparently the face of the deep at the time was between the earth and the water...There was no Heaven at the time...
So somewhere between Gen. 1:1 and the middle of Gen. 1:2 and beyond, God put the water on the earth and gathered it into one place...
And that's another interesting artifact of scripture...There was one sea and one land mass...
so sue me for the typo - sick and tired is a bad way to start the weekend. I think everyone knew what was meant.
You're just saying that because it's true.
Our theologically challenged friends either don't or can't understand that.
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