Posted on 06/21/2011 3:51:29 PM PDT by NoGrayZone
Okay, here's the deal in a long story short. I was raised Lutheran, moved out to Long Island and continued to be raised in St. Paul's Lutheran Church.
Aunt Jeannie (my name sake) has been a member since. I decided years ago I wanted back, so I went.
I did not feel Him there, thought it was me. I kept looking around the congregation, thinking it was me. After a while, I realized it wasn't (a couple of things happened after that confirmed it wasn't me).
Anywho, the icing on the cake was my Aunt Jeannie stopped going as well. After almost 30 years she felt the change as well. I looked up our church and saw they were apart of the "accept homosexuals as Pastors" crowd. That was 1 of the things that confirmed it was not me.
But my Aunt Jeannie leaving was the icing on the cake.
Here's our delima. Both of us are July babies. She is the 2nd, I am the 18th. We decided on 7/17 we would find a church to attend (we both want one to belong to and believe in), then go have brunch to discuss.
She is much more open minded than I am, but I promised her I would be open minded, if just for an hour, on that day.
I said to her, during our conversation "how do we know if the "Pastor" is a homo or not. She believes He is with us no matter where we are. I agree....to a point. I don't believe a homosexual can be one of His Shepard's leading His herd if that is so.
There have been so many "demoninations" coming out for homosexual "Shepard's" I have NO idea where to begin.
I have called a few churches and left messages for the Pastor to call back so I can interview Him (no lady Pastors for me).
Any advise to where we can look? Anyone know anything about Presbyterians?
In 1997 the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America enacted its own version of Prussian Unionism with the “Formula of Agreement” declaring “full communion” with three Reformed denominations.
How can you be “in communion” when there is no real commonality over Who is present?
I quit the So. Baptist Church because it is filled with hypocrites. They do not follow what they preach. Petty and backstabbing. But you may find what you want there.
What is the RESULT?
Is a person SAVED or DAMNED?
Then we PROTESTANTS will leave and you can 'bash' them as much as you want.
And there are NONE where you worship now?
In the future, if you do not want antagonism on a thread then use the "Ecumenical" label in the header.
It's a beautiful rotunda based Church
anyway, to the point, I asked and found out that the Lutherans in Warsaw were initially offered the rights of German citizens (as were Catholic Poles of German origin), but most German-origin Poles (nearly all in Warsaw) refused.
The church was persecuted and then destroyed (with the rest of Warsaw) in 1944.
The Prussian Union of 1817 forced by Kaiser Frederick Wilhelm II caused two schisms. The Kaiser forced the Lutherans and Reformed to merge (so that the Kaiser had more power). He had already abolished their individual leaders and now the government interfered. He was a Calvinist but the majority of his subjects were Lutheran
By the force of the Prussian king, the Words of union did not proclaim the Real Presence -- which I'm sure caused more than a little disquiet (and moved your great-grandparents too, red)
Then in 1829, the Kaiser forced all Protestant congregations to give up the names Lutheran/Reformed and call themselves Evangelical and basically to ignore the Lord's Supper as having the True Presence.
This caused a pretty big schism -- especially in Wrocław (then called Breslau, but now in Poland's S-W) who believed this rejection to be against God's Will
red -- was this the thing that led to the formation of the LCMS?
I feel this govt interference, ultimately leading to the Unity church becoming a department of the state had a negative effect lasting over a century
I am sure there are some. But we don’t hear do not do such and such, and then see them doing the same thing outside. I find solace in my church now, while my sister and other’s fight to control their church. Just petty fighting. I go to church to renew, not to get beat up.
My SIL's favorite meme for not going to church. And, sad to say, it was also mine when I was his age.
But, I do remember well my agnostic Father-in-law who looked me in the eye when I said it in front of him and he said,
"If they are hypocrites, isn't church where they are supposed to be? You know, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. But if the horse goes to the water all by himself, chances are he will drink without any encouragement from you."
I don't know. We can debate about the big picture (is it a metaphor or real) or the minutae, but to specifically NGZ's problem, I really, really, cannot imagine going to a Church that did not believe that God is present there in the Eucharist -- whatever be the arguments for or against, if one deeply believes this, as you, ngz do, I do believe and think that you would be deeply unsatisfied. The pastor you spoke to was correct -- it is a make or break issue.
NGZ, please do look at the LCMS, WELS churches who are deeply traditional and orthodox in their beliefs. My sincere advice is that you may be happy there
Thank you for the compliment.
The centrality of Christ's Eucharistic Presence is very much on mind today, being the traditional date for the Feast of Corpus Christi, a Feast which Luther did not reject. Indeed, his Post-Communion hymn for the Deudsch Messe "O Lord We Praise You, Thank You and Adore You" was based on a Corpus Christi hymn.
Do remember that there are orthodox Lutherans beyond the LCMS and WELS in the Society of the Holy Trinity.
Jesus Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.
I apologize if it seems heavy to you, but these are the simple words from the scripture.
Finally, do note that post 259 is a response to a question in 246 by Elsie. I had indicated in post 208 that this is a thread for NoGreyZone's question. you want to hijack it into a discussion that has been had many times? there are lots of threads for that religioius discussion. but Elsie's posts asked for the doctrine, so that was given.
Yes, today is Corpus Christi, Bóże Ciało in Polish (the Body of Christ) -- we just have had a number of processions and prayers to Christ for Poland, and the world. It was quite moving, the entire country is shut and many are praying.
Do remember that there are orthodox Lutherans beyond the LCMS and WELS in the Society of the Holy Trinity.
I apologize if I missed them out -- thank you for the link
1. O Lord, we praise Thee, bless Thee, and adore Thee,
In thanksgiving bow before Thee.
Thou with Thy body and Thy blood didst nourish
Our weak souls that they may flouish:
O Lord, have mercy!
May Thy body, Lord, born of Mary,
That our sins and sorrows did carry,
And Thy blood for us plead
In all trial, fear, and need:
O Lord, have mercy!
2. Thy holy body into death was given,
Life to win for us in heaven.
No greater love than this to Thee could bind us;
May this feast thereof remind us!
O Lord, have mercy!
Lord, Thy kindness did so constrain Thee
That Thy blood should bless and sustain me.
All our debt Thou hast paid;
Peace with God once more is made:
O Lord, have mercy.
3. May God bestow on us His grace and favor
To please Him with our behavior
And live as brethren here in love and union
Nor repent this blest Communion!
O Lord, have mercy!
Let not Thy good Spirit forsake us;
Grant that heavenly-minded He make us;
Give Thy Church, Lord, to see
Days of peace and unity:
O Lord, have mercy!
Hymn #313
The Lutheran Hymnal
Text: Ps. 118: 1
Author: unknown, c. 1400, St. 1
Author: Martin Luther, 1524, St. 2 & 3
Translated by: composite
Titled: “Gott sei gelobet und gebenedeiet”
Tune: “Gott sei gelobet”
German melody, c. 1400
Good march beat with that tune--perfect accompaniment for a procession.
Amen!
I see you've met some of my MORMON friends...
You keeping repeating.
I asked if they did not BELIEVE it was magically turned into real human flesh; NOT if they didn’t EAT of the bread and drink of the wine.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.