Looking For A True Church To Call Home

6/21/11 | Me

[NoGrayZone]

Okay, here's the deal in a long story short. I was raised Lutheran, moved out to Long Island and continued to be raised in St. Paul's Lutheran Church.

Aunt Jeannie (my name sake) has been a member since. I decided years ago I wanted back, so I went.

I did not feel Him there, thought it was me. I kept looking around the congregation, thinking it was me. After a while, I realized it wasn't (a couple of things happened after that confirmed it wasn't me).

Anywho, the icing on the cake was my Aunt Jeannie stopped going as well. After almost 30 years she felt the change as well. I looked up our church and saw they were apart of the "accept homosexuals as Pastors" crowd. That was 1 of the things that confirmed it was not me.

But my Aunt Jeannie leaving was the icing on the cake.

Here's our delima. Both of us are July babies. She is the 2nd, I am the 18th. We decided on 7/17 we would find a church to attend (we both want one to belong to and believe in), then go have brunch to discuss.

She is much more open minded than I am, but I promised her I would be open minded, if just for an hour, on that day.

I said to her, during our conversation "how do we know if the "Pastor" is a homo or not. She believes He is with us no matter where we are. I agree....to a point. I don't believe a homosexual can be one of His Shepard's leading His herd if that is so.

There have been so many "demoninations" coming out for homosexual "Shepard's" I have NO idea where to begin.

I have called a few churches and left messages for the Pastor to call back so I can interview Him (no lady Pastors for me).

Any advise to where we can look? Anyone know anything about Presbyterians?

[Cronos]

I was apologizing for replying back to e on your thread.

[Alamo-Girl]

If I may, I suggest you and Aunt Jeannie pray about it and then attend a different church and pray afterward and so on until you're comfortable to attend the same church a second time or third, etc.

Bottom line: love God, believe Him and trust Him. Even when you are comfortable, He may want you somewhere else.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. - I John 2:27

[daisy mae for the usa]

Hello again, NGZ! I’m having a hard time staying on-line, so I’m following the thread slowly! :(

This preacher you have talked to seems to say some important things. Quote:

>He also stated that they do not believe the body and blood of Christ (they call it the last supper)is literal and told me to read the 1st Corinthians which explains it.

I read it and am very confused and have NO idea what I read (I will certainly tell him that part).<

Maybe I can help with that understanding. The verses that relate to the Lord’s Supper are at I Cor. 10: 16-17 and I Cor. 11:17-34. But all of these verses appear within the greater context that begins at 10:14 about fleeing from idolatry.

Back then, there were a lot of temples where sacrifices were made to idols, and then the sacrificial meat was sold in the open market. Paul is trying to help the Christians at Corinth have a clear understanding of what the Lord’s Supper means in respect to what they see around them.

Basically, he is telling them, since these idols don’t really exist, the food offered to them is just food. So, if you want to eat it, go ahead, it is no big deal. BUT—and there is a big BUT that follows— if it offends your conscious or someone else’s conscious for you to eat this meat— then DON’T EAT IT.

In the process of making sure they understand that idol worship should not be a part of their life in any way, he is also clarifying for them what exactly the Lord’s Supper is. It is not sacrificial food, like they see with the idol worshipers around them. The sacrifice was Christ’s death on the cross. It is however a sacred reminder of that sacrifice, so sacred in fact, that we must never partake of it in the sense that we eat lunch, nor without centering our very being on the moments of the cross.

You see, when Jesus first shared the supper with the disciples in the upper room, while His blood was still in his body, and his flesh still on His bones, he offered bread and fruit of the vine and said this is my body and blood. Paul repeats these exact words in I Cor. because Paul understands that Jesus meant for this to be a remembrance of Christ’s moments on the cross.

The passage in John which is being used to validate the idea of the actual blood and body of Christ comes in a greater context as well. The Jews Jesus is speaking to have asked him, what is He going to give them. After all, Moses gave them manna. Jesus says he is the manna that brings eternal life. If you eat me, you’ll live forever. This was disgusting to these Jews as it went against various laws that they followed. Many of them turned away and quit following him because of this understanding. But Peter, bless his earnest heart! Peter understood exactly what Jesus was saying. (John 6: 66-69) Jesus says, what about you, Peter, are you leaving too? Peter says, where would I go? You have the words of eternal life. You are the Son of the Living God.

Peter was so sincere! He *got* that manna coming down from heaven was just like the Word (Jesus) coming down from heaven to give eternal life to all who would come to Him. John, chapter one, tells the whole story so beautifully.

Anyway, I hope that helps, NGZ!

I was also encouraged to see the preacher referred you to the King James version. It has been trusted down through time because it was translated by many language specialists commissioned by King James with the job. They took the original Greek texts and translated them into English. They were under threat of the King’s wrath if they did not follow exact translation guides. That was a time when people used the Thee’s and Thou’s, so that is the English that it was translated to. The company that prints the King James has since printed a New King James version that changes the thee’s and thou’s to what we understand better as you, your, etc. I prefer it for that reason.

The English Standard is also a nice translation for the same reason of many scholars working together from the original Greek text.

The original New International Version started off in this same way, but the company printing this version has since diversified its versions. Printing laws require that with each printing of a new version, you must change the text in order to make it a different version. So over time, the NIV’s have been compromised a bit on translation. I appreciate that it is easier to read, but I don’t trust these versions wholly, for this reason.

There are many other “bibles” out there, but not all of them have been translated directly from the original Greek, or have been translated by one or a few people, which does not allow for checks and balances, or they have been translated strictly by scholars of a given set of beliefs, and may reflect the biases of those beliefs. It pays to read the “preface.” :)

Well, I do go on!!! Sorry to be so wordy. I hope I am helping. I will be praying that your heart is soon sure of your home!— Daisy

[Hetty_Fauxvert]

Wishing you blessings in your search for a path that feels good and right to you. I truly believe that if we do our best to *do* our best (if you know what I mean), even if we mess up a little, God takes our sincere intentions into account. I hope you find a home soon that brings you light and comfort.

[Elsie]

For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

That's what it says.

It does NOT say...

"This bread will actually turn into My flesh went you eat it; and this wine will actually turn into My blood when you drink it."

[Elsie]

One more time:

What is the result to a person’s soul, if they do NOT believe the wafer and wine are Jesus’ body?

[patriotUSA]

If I were on Long Island and needed to find a new home church, this is the one I would try first. The Senior Pastor is a graduate of the Master’s Seminary in California, which is led by Pastor John MacArthur. (GTY.org)

Calvary Baptist Church
2981 Horseblock Rd.
Medford, NY 11763

Please let me know how your walk goes. Peace be with you

[Cronos]

Jesus chose the time of Passover to fulfill what he had announced at Capernaum: giving his disciples his Body and his Blood:

Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the passover lamb had to be sacrificed. So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the passover meal for us, that we may eat it. . . ." They went . . . and prepared the passover. And when the hour came, he sat at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer; for I tell you I shall not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.". . . . And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood." Lk 22:7-20

7Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

8And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

9And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?

10And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.

11And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

12And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.

13And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

14And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

15And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

17And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

18For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Mt 26:17-29

17Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

18And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

19And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.

20Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.

21And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

22And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?

23And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.

24The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

25Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

29But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mk 14:12-25

12And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

13And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.

14And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

15And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.

16And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

17And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.

18And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.

19And they began to be sorrowful, and to say unto him one by one, Is it I? and another said, Is it I?

20And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.

21The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

22And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

23And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

24And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

25Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

[Cronos]

1 Cor 11:23-26

23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

[Cronos]

in Paul's writings to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 10:16)

6 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?

and also 1 Cor 11:27-29

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

How clear can Paul get? "The bread IS a participation in the body of Christ" and "who eats the bread... will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord" This is not just mere bread and wine anymore. This is the body and blood of Christ.

Finally, the Earliest Christians also said any consideration of this as just a metaphor was false -- Ignature of Antioch (disciple of Apotle John) wrote in AD 110 wrote about heretics who abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again" (Letter to the SMyrnaens). The earliest Christians beleived this to be the ACTUAL body of Christ. Why, they were also accused by pagans of being cannibals and Justin MArtyr had to write a defence to the Emperor saying "Not as common bread or common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nourished, . . . is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus"

in view of this overwhelming evidence from scripture and supplemented by the practise and belief of the earliest Christians, we can only say that there IS a real presence in the Eucharist.

[aruanan]

Even more important than these verses by Paul quoting what he had received directly from the Lord are the following verses in which he demonstrates that what Jesus had told was not a matter of mere symbolism or representation but a matter of substance with respect to which the believers' actions could lead to real, physical consequences, not merely legal imputations of guilt, on their lives:

27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

[Cronos]

The Assyrians, Eastern Orthodox, Orientals, Catholics, Lutherans and Anglicans all believe that this is the True Presence of Christ, the Body of Christ. This is the belief taught by Christ that we have had since Apostolic Times. Refer the Didache (AD 70) 9:5 Allow no one to eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized in the name of the Lord. For concerning this, the Lord has said, "Do not give what is holy to dogs."

A letter written by an Early Christian in 106 AD (Epistle to the Romans) says: "I desire the bread of GOD, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ."

In the Letter to the Smyrneans

Chapter 7. Let us stand aloof from such heretics

They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that you should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.

In AD 150, Justin Martyr wrote of the Eucharist in the first apology: "Not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Savior, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.

Now how do folks coming around 2000 years later think they know better than the folks who knew the apostles or the disciples of the Apostles?

This kind of disbelieving led to Mormonism's "Great Apostasy" -- don't you realise this? By saying, oh, the guys writing in AD 70 were "misled", that means that one implicitly agrees with Mormon philosophy

[Cronos]

What is the result?

Read the Bible, let Jesus Christ answer?

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.

[Cronos]

thank you aruanan. NGZ, I really feel strongly about the Eucharist. Whether Anglican or Lutheran or Catholic or Orthodox or Assyrian etc., the belief and reverence for God is there.

More specifically, this gives you the presence of Christ Himself. Going to church is not just an external sign for oneself but to be part of the community with the High Priest Himself.

By removing the Eucharist from the center of the churches, there is a mistake -- the pulpit is moved to center stage and one has a far-a-way deity. In contrast take an LCMC or WELS Church -- they have this sense that God is with us -- Jesus, Our Lord, God and Savior came to be with us -- this is not the faraway, formless God, but God with us -- Jesus.

[NoGrayZone]

My goodness, this seems to have turned into a Catholic bashing thread, not good.

I said I wouldn’t to Catholic and you just gave me your reasons as to why I should think about it. You told me about the Catholic Church, as I DID ask for everyone’s advice.

Sorry for that my Catholic FReepers. It seems most threads in the Religion forum turn into a bashing.

[NoGrayZone]

Absolutely. And you’re correct about the CINO’s.

[NoGrayZone]

You weren’t snarky at all! =)

[antisocial]

I live out in the country 15 miles from town, there are 3 Baptist churches within 3 miles of my house. LOL

[Cronos]

My goodness, this seems to have turned into a Catholic bashing thread, not good.

Ah, we're used to it -- that's the norm in most Religion Forum threads, by the usual.

but do note that don-o is catholic, small 'c', as in part of the Apostolic Church, but in FR category terms he is Eastern Orthodox. We are together one Church.

But to your question, seriously, very seriously, I know you have ruled out Catholicism, but I would very strongly urge you to look for a Church that does have a belief in the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist -- this can be Orthodox or Lutheran (LCMS or WELS) -- I have the deepest respect for my strongly orthodox, strongly conservative Lutheran brethern: redgolum; bcsco; lightman; Conservativegreatgrandma; Charles Henrickson -- you do have a strong belief that Christ is with us, and I personally, in your shoes could not be happy in a place that did not believe that. In recent history you can read how the King of Prussia in the late 1800s forced the Lutherans and Calvinists to merge together -- how does one force people who don't believe in this True presence with those who do? It ended up with people not believing in anything (in contrast the Lutherans in Poland who were not affected are still very devout). I do believe that it would be doing injustice to you and to the Presbyterians, but that's just my thoughts.

I'm sorry if I am harping on about this, but Christ's presence in the Eucharist, whichever way one wants to describe it affects and moves me strongly and I know my Lutheran brethern feel the same -- this is no mere symbol, no mere "wafer" -- to the Lutherans this is the Sacramental Union and I'm sure they bristle as much as I or don-o does at Christ's body referred to as a mere "wafer" or "cracker"

[redgolum]

The Prussian Union is one of the reasons my great Grandfather left Saxony for Nebraska. The Kaiser’s army was another!

A part of history that few know or remember.