Posted on 06/15/2011 7:52:47 AM PDT by Cronos
"The stampede is on," Archibishop Timothy Dolan wrote in a blog post. "Our elected senators who have stood courageous in their refusal to capitulate on the state's presumption to redefine marriage are reporting unrelenting pressure to cave-in."
He equated the move to allow same-sex marriage to life in China or North Korea, where "government presumes daily to 'redefine' rights, relationships, values and natural law."
Meanwhile, New Yorkers for Constitutional Freedoms, an evangelical Christian group, warned that Republicans who support gay marriage will face primaries next year as the GOP seeks to keep control of the chamber.
(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...
My Senator is already on board against it. He has even proposed legislation to not recognize other states gay marriages here, but he’s getting his ass kicked in the Press with some bull in it. NY sucks and is going down the crapper. I am at a point in my life where I can move to PA, and I may just do it.
And don’t forget... it is a NY Daily Snooze poll so it’s going to be slanted, but the whole state is slanting left with the city dems moving upstate for easier welfare...
I voted NO! Please, everyone, help stop this nonsense. Our rights are being taken away from us one by one at an ever increasing pace. Young people are being recruited every day to be gay. Now they are being RAISED by gay parents to be gay.
What could have caused such a "drastic" change? /SARCASM!
The RCC should have been doing this at least 10 years ago...had they not been so busy hiding the perverts... "you know..."
I do hope this "new" concern is for "real" and not just for show!
(sorry for being a "tad" bitter...)
your tagline is pretty outdated looking at this headline..
Even at the darkest hour, the majority of the clergy were uncorrupted
But now, the Church needs people like you, deeply believing, religious, indignant folks
Let me just say this -- curses on the 3% of criminals that were priests who abused children. I am glad they are thrown out and glad that there are stricter norms today (see the suspension of Corapi on mere suspicion and accusation sans proof) and am saddened that this was not done earlier (either due to liberal ideas that pscyhology could help or other reasons).
however, I do not see this affecting my beliefs or the dogma or doctrines of The Church.
I note also that this is not something embedded in the clergy, despite what our media wants us to believe
Even in the worst dioceses only 2-3% of priests were accused (in the lib hell-holes of Philly and Chicago). Let's assume all were guilty, that still means only 3% of priest.
Do not condemn the rest of the priests for the actions of the few.
This is not endemic -- note the many good priests and bishops, especially those being appointed now. They need our help. Note also that we are Catholics, we are not a personality driven MegaChurch that rises or falls based on a pastor -- our High Priest is Christ Himself.
If we have a sin filled priest (and hey, they are human after all), that matters not. If they are criminals boot them in prison, that doesn't affect our Church. If they can't preach, that matters not.
Because we look beyond this human vessel and focus on Christ in the Eucharist
During our Holy Prayer to God, what do we have?
oh, my friend in Christ, we are blessed to have experienced this -- and where does the minister figure in all of this? He is just a tool, a means. God uses splendid tools or weak ones, but they are just tools
What is at the centre of our Churches? Not like in others, the pulpit, glorifying the preacher, but in Our Church the center-piece is the altar with the Eucharist, the Bible and the Cross, remembering us of Our Risen Lord, His sacrifice and His Word
Arise, let us take back our Church Catholic.
71-28.
bumpbump. Keep voting folks!
This is truly sad....bump
When "religion" says that such-and-such a practice is wrong and sinful, it isn't communicating a charming ethno-cultural taboo. It isn't expressing an opinion. It is stating absolute truth. But things have gotten so screwy nowadays that liberals dismiss any and all religious appeals because "imagine if religion taught discrimination against Blacks." In other words, "religion" is an absolutely groundless rationale to the modern mind--yet those same modern minds never seem to consider that there is no other valid foundation for our laws!
Liberals have spent over a century discrediting G-d with "science" in order to do away with His "oppressive" rules, yet they never seem to have considered that the universe, rendered a meaningless material phenomenon of physical causes and effects, renders their own morality stupid and groundless as well. If the universe doesn't care if I'm "gay," it doesn't care if I'm a "bigot" either!
I'm afraid that with a population absolutely convinced that religion has absolutely nothing to say about anything--and who can't seem to think critically about the similar groundlessness of their own liberal moral concerns--we are doomed. We're going to have to change the way people think!
Even here on Free Republic people appeal to men and to human tradition as a valid reason to reject "gay marriage." It isn't. Homosexuality isn't wrong because it's "un-American," or because George Washington would have been scandalized, or because it is contrary to the traditions of the pilgrim fathers or because "this is a chr*stian country." It is wrong for one and only one reason: it has been declared so by G-d. We've got to stop being ashamed of that rationale. We've got to stop appealing to "constitutional rights" as the basis of morality. And we've got to stop appealing to John Locke, "western civilization," or anything else!
Yet conservatives allow liberals to play them like a fiddle. One minute we're invoking G-d against sin, the next we're appealing to Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine as a defense against moslem "theocracy." Make up your minds, people!!! Conservative chr*stians who demand that moslems abandon their "theocratic" convictions are no different from Orthodox Jews who demand that chr*stians stop evangelizing.
Unfortunately, "separation of church and state" really only makes sense in a Protestant context. What such "separation" really originally meant was that no one is required to be "saved." It never meant religious strictures could not serve as law. Because Protestantism uniquely assigns to the church only the mission of "saving souls" and depends on the secular state to enforce moral law it has to make such a distinction. Before Protestantism there was no such thing as "religion" apart from the rest of life (though it was hinted at in earlier chr*stianity's dichotomy between G-d and Caesar, G-d and the "world," etc.).
When non-Protestants--members of religions that teach all-embracing moral codes rather than merely "getting saved"--accept the Protestant notion of "separation of church and state" they are naturally preparing the ground for the current idea that religious moral codes cannot serve as the basis of secular law (though liberals never seem to wonder why their hang-ups about "social justice" do). Jews, who learned by experience not to get into religious quarrels with chr*stians during the Middle Ages, long ago adopted secular rationales as the only way to make their points ("you should let us practice our religion so you and everyone else can be free to do as you wish as well"). And American Catholicism adopted Protestant separationism in the only way it could--by becoming the subjective heritage of certain ethnic groups rather than a universal religion with claims on all people (such a concept is "un-American"). It is no wonder the American Catholic Church can't excommunicate liberal politicians; the Catholic Church is the birthright of everyone with an Irish, Italian, or Spanish surname, and you can't kick anyone out of an ethnic group!
All of us are guilty for the situation in which we find ourself. Every one of us. America's Fundamentalist Protestants, just like everyone else, turned their religion into an ethnic heritage, treating jim crow as though it were from Heaven and the American redneck as if he were the chosen people. Catholicism not only ethnicized its religion but defined itself against those awful ignorant bigoted people who don't understand that religious truth is not factual but profound and symbolic. Eastern Orthodoxy and other even more exotic forms of chr*stianity are non-factors. Though present in this country they live in ethnic ghettos and refuse to take part in any of these controversies (when have you heard of a Coptic, Armenian, or Assyrian clergyman address these issues?). And as for the Jews . . . well, everything that happens in the world ultimately is for the sake of Israel, and how the vast majority of Jews have redefined Judaism from the covenant with Israel made at Sinai to a sort of Lenny Bruce/Weimar Republic decadence in the face of "chr*stian prudes" is too well known to need explication.
Americans are allergic to the word "theocracy." But what is G-d's universe if not a Theocracy? What is the law against murder or theft but a primitive Theocratic regulation no different from laws against homosexuality or the laws of animal sacrifice? This rot has been a long time coming. It is not the work of a few decades or a few centuries, but of millenia. By de-throning G-d as the King of the Universe and making Him a "spiritual" entity (a feat of which conservatives boast in their attacks on islam) we made this inevitable.
Ultimately, all agree that eventually G-d will rule and there will be no secular rationale with which to oppose His decrees. But until then the fact that we all believe different things (something considered beyond the pale of conversation in polite company because religion is subjective and besides, "chr*stianity built western civilization"), we're going to have to find a more creative way to honor G-d without "oppressing" our fellow man. Each and every Orthodox Jew lives in a portable Theocracy, and no one feels threatened (unfortunately). Is there some way the rest of us can adopt a similar tack? Perhaps the various religious communities could organize as governments united under some sort of common federal system. There has to be some way to enable each of us to live in subjection to the laws of G-d in a "pluralist" context. If you haven't noticed, the Left doesn't just want "gay marriage"--THEY WANT ALL OF US IMPLICATED IN IT! That's the whole point; they want to force us to violate the laws of G-d. Any system which didn't threaten them, but which would leave our consciences unmolested, is something they would oppose tooth and nail because their whole purpose is to molest our consciences.
As dumbed down as the average modern person has become about religion, is it possible to appeal to him to support a system in which those of us who care about such things are not implicated in the G-dlessness and schmutz the liberals are so fond of? Would the refusal of the hard core left to accept anything short of forcing us to violate our consciences wake the average non-Theocrat up?
Whether portable, ethnic, communal, "voluntary," or whatever, we need to find a way to allow those of us who fear G-d to follow His laws in this evil society. It isn't enough to "take back the culture" or "take back the country" (a country founded by deists?) or to appeal to "western civilization" or to northwestern European descended people (as if G-d's laws were civilizational, racial, or utilitarian). We have GOT to try something new! The old ways don't work any more! "Religious freedom" has destroyed them!
I may have my head taken off for this post, but there has to be someone out there who can contribute to a situation where acknowledgment G-d's absolute sovereignty and Kingship is allowed to exist. Ultimately this isn't about homosexuality. It's about G-d and G-d's place as the foundation of everything. A nation can have a law against homosexuality and still not acknowledge G-d (after all, we live in a society that outlaws murder for purely pragmatic reasons and not out of submission to G-d's Commandments).
What are we gonna do about it, people?
PS: This was composed at the keyboard. Please excuse any mistypes.
Thanks Cronos, poll FReep, off-topic ping to all lists.
Poll Results
Thank you for voting.
Do you think the state Senate should pass a law legalizing gay marriage?
Yes 71%
No 28%
I’m not sure 0%
Same as this morning; something stinks, and it isn’t spoiled weiners.
Somebody should vote “I’m not sure” just to see if it shows up.
Freegards
I think you’re right. I’m guessing we’re seeing a NYC vote here, not the vote of everyone else in the state.
I guess it depends on if the poll is set up to show less than one %. If 10,000 people vote, and everyone who bothers to vote has an opinion, the “not sures” might be a fractional amount. We sure get a good number of “undecideds” in election polling, but then again I’m not sure if any of them would call somebody up just to tell them they don’t really care.
Freegards
71/29 The DU’ers are very busy voting in this poll.
Amen.
Yes 53%
No 47%
I’m not sure 0%
Will do, but it’s not a scientific poll. Sienna poll has it at 55%, and even that is not necessarily accurate.
I wrote a note, email and made a phone call to my senator to tell him what FOLLOWS same-sex “marriage”:
Part of it was:
“Catholic Charities Forced to Shut Down Services around the Country”
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=41680&page=1
Good talkers might be willing to call a talk show.
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