Posted on 04/30/2011 2:38:35 PM PDT by marshmallow
The Archbishop of York has given his backing to Prince William and Kate Middleton’s decision to live together before marriage.
The Archbishop of York backed Prince William and Kate Middleton’s decision to live together before marriage, saying that many modern couples want to “test the milk before they buy the cow”.
Dr John Sentamu argued that the royal couple’s public commitment to live their lives together today would be more important than their past.
But Anglican traditionalists criticised the Archbishop, the second most senior cleric in the Church of England, for failing to reinforce Christian teaching which prohibits sex outside marriage.
The row came as Prince William and Kate Middleton unveiled their choices for the royal wedding service, which include classically British music and hymns, and an updated choice of marriage vows in which the bride omits the word “obey”.
In a television interview, Dr Sentamu was asked whether it was appropriate for the Prince, who is in line to become head of the Church of England as King, to have been living with his bride before marriage.
He said he had conducted wedding services for “many cohabiting couples” during his time as a vicar in south London.
“We are living at a time where some people, as my daughter used to say, they want to test whether the milk is good before they buy the cow,” he said. “For some people that’s where their journeys are.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
You wrote:
“asking you a question and wondered seeing as you’re Catholic if they live by your rules but it seems you cannot answer that, must have been a tough question.”
No, it is an easy one. It just isn’t relevant. Truth is not contingent upon people following it. Either something is true or it isn’t. Whether or not people accept it as true and do the right thing with it is a different story. Christ is the Savior. That’s true. Does that mean everyone accepts it as true? No. Is it any less true when they don’t? No.
“Do you have kids?”
Irrelevant. Whether or not I have children in no way impacts the truth. Either something is true or it is not. Having children or not having children in no way impacts what is true.
“As for Jesus and you thinking you know him and what he would think then does he say love unto others.”
Yes, Jesus says to love. What He didn’t say was to fornicate. You are collapsing love and pre-marital sex as if they are the same. That’s not the best argument to say the least.
“BTW You’re Catholic this couple are not and you don’t even know them so do you run around preaching your, O best not say it before you report me ARF”
It doesn’t matter that they are not Catholic. The truth is still the truth. It doesn’t change just because these two belong to a johnny-come-lately sect. Do the Ten Commandments not apply to non-Jews and non-Catholics? Do the Eight Beatitudes apply only to Catholics? And I don’t have to know the couple personally to know that they are not very religious - their words and actions show that - and they - as made clear by the prelate in the opening article tacitly admits - have been having sexual relations. Everyone knows it. That’s the whole point of the article in the first place. If Kate Middleton had been at the well just a week ago with Jesus what would He have told her?
You wrote:
“er I don’t know because I don’t know him”
That is abundantly clear. Perhaps if Christ played a bigger role in your life, you would think differently.
“and if you find m e where he says do not live with each other before marriage then I’ll stick with that answer.”
I posted a verse. You are ignoring it.
“What would he think, ARF like you know”
You don’t? Earlier you claimed He wants us to love. How do you know? Because He said so. Now you are essentially claiming He approves of sin or the occasions of sin. He did not such thing. He made it abundantly clear we are to avoid sin.
Do you think a parent show advise his daughter to do so?
You wrote:
“ever thought people do not live by your faith?”
Yes, and that doesn’t impact the truth one bit.
“Ever thought what it is like to have kids?”
Irrelevant. Having children in no way changes the truth. Not having children in no way changes the truth. If someone has ten kids and another person has only two, does the person with ten kids get to change the truth? No. It doesn’t change.
“Ever thought what it is like to be a parent?”
Irrelevant. Being a parent doesn’t impact the truth. The truth is still true whether you have children or not. Does being a parent allow you to beat your wife? Does being a parent allow you to commit abortion? Does being NOT a parent allow you to beat your girlfriend or have an abortion? The truth stays the same.
“Ever though people couldn’t careless about your faith or how you think people should live?”
Some won’t care. Some will. The truth doesn’t change, however.
“No don’t answer by saying what would Jesus think either”
Why not? Would Jesus say that He should have given up talking becaue some wouldn’t listen?
You appear to have no argument at all.
LOL, Yes I’ll assume you don’t have kids and you do thrust your views onto others and you know what it does matter if you ave kids because you are passing judgment onto a couple you have no clue about, you’ve never been in that situation therefore it is easier to pass judgment when you have not walked in others shoes.
Until you have then you view would be more respected.
Also your faith is what you want to live by then fine by don’t think your faith is the supreme faith where others have to go by it,. I suggest you get more upset over those in your faith who never live by their faith as there are millions, including homosexual Priests touching little boys.
You wrote:
“I’ve used the word since I came onto this site,”
Irrelevant. The word is frowned upon on the Religion Forum. No big deal.
“even to JR but I don’;t come onto the religion threads much as a few people like to push their faith and think their faith is the supreme one.”
And they are all wrong? You do realize that most likely some of them have to be correct on something.
“They like to quote verses which does not even apply to their lives.”
The real problem seems to be the reader and not the quoter. Often a poor grasp of scripture or not knowing Christ can get in the way of learning what is true (to say the least).
the truth in your view not to others like me and the millions of a majority , infact billions in the world.
The truth, only in your eyes it is but you seem to not grasp that concept and think everyone has to go by your rules , that is if you actually go by your own rules , you know love others, respect others, etc etc etc.
I’m sure you know all of that but your posts do not seem to go with that part of your faith.
They are all wrong , OMG your highness we all bow to your supremacy .
As for your last line, well have you thought people do not have your faith and think you’re wrong but like I said I suggest you have kids and raise them and then you know how people are and what problems people face.
As for Christ, you talk as if you know him and know what he meant but then again it fits your profile
It depends. I got married at 21 years old. We didn't live together before marriage, and that marriage lasted less than 3 years.
I lived with my second husband almost two years before we got married, because I had no desire to get married again so soon. We have now been married over 16 years.
Really, we are not talking about a 16 year old in the back seat of a car. She is 29 years old.
Do you really think that she was going to stay a virgin until 29 years old, whether she lived with him or not?
You wrote:
“LOL, Yes I’ll assume you don’t have kids”
Since it is completely irrelevant either way it doesn’t really matter what you assume there now does it?
“and you do thrust your views onto others”
So, posting views is not thrusting my views on others? Aren’t you just as guilty for posting your own? Wouldn’t that be hypocrisy on your part then too? Did that even occur to you?
“and you know what it does matter if you ave kids because you are passing judgment onto a couple you have no clue about,”
Wow, what a leap in logic you make. First of all, I am not passing judgment on any couple by stating the truth. I did not condemn their souls nor does any human being have the power to do so. I, however, like anyone else can state the obvious when wrongdoing is done. If Kate Middleton had an abortion, it would be wrong. If I said so, that would simply be telling the truth and it would not be passing judgment. Now, all of that remains absolutely true whether I have five kids or none, whether I lost a child to crib death or am sterile, whther I have ten kids of my own or a blend family of six like the Brady Bunch! The truth simply doesn’t change depending upon how many children I have; and having children, or not having children, make me no more or less likely to pass judgment on someone. What your putting forward is illogical, irrational and just plain silly.
“you’ve never been in that situation therefore it is easier to pass judgment when you have not walked in others shoes.”
So, you’re now claiming that having children is walking in the shoes of Kate and William? Do you realize how utterly nonsensical that sounds?
“Until you have then you view would be more respected.”
By whom? Only illogical, emotional driven people could possibly think there is a relationship between being a parent and knowing Kate and William or at least knowing the rightness of their actions when they contradict constant Christian teaching. Seriously, how does the one connect to the other? Kate and William do not have children. By your own illogic that would mean they could never evaluate their own actions until they have kids. Do you realize how bizarre what you’re putting forward is?
“Also your faith is what you want to live by then fine by don’t think your faith is the supreme faith where others have to go by it,.”
Wait. Again you are confusing one issue with another. I have every right to tell the truth all I want. If you - or anyone else - doesn’t want to hear it, then don’t read it.
“I suggest you get more upset over those in your faith who never live by their faith as there are millions, including homosexual Priests touching little boys.”
Gee, does someone have to have children to get upset about that or can they just assume truth is truth and abusing children is wrong even if they don’t have any children themselves?
Do you see how illogical your ideas are?
You wrote:
“the truth in your view not to others like me and the millions of a majority , infact billions in the world.”
So, all those people who liked Obama must have been right about him? After all, there were many more of them around the world than those who disliked him. So, since according to you, it is all a numbers game, if Obama is more liked than disliked his policies must be right. Right?
No, of course not. His policies stink even if people adore him. And how well he is liked or supported has exactly NOTHING to do with truth.
“The truth, only in your eyes it is but you seem to not grasp that concept and think everyone has to go by your rules ,”
Christianity has always taught that cohabitation was wrong. Only liberal Protestant sects today teach that it is okay. It is not about my opinion. It is about truth. It hasn’t changed. You’re siding with the liberals.
“that is if you actually go by your own rules , you know love others, respect others, etc etc etc.”
Love God first and foremost.
“I’m sure you know all of that but your posts do not seem to go with that part of your faith.”
They do entirely. The problem is the reader. When a liberal doesn’t know what he is talking about he is guaranteed to mess things up. Stop siding with the liberals.
You wrote:
“They are all wrong , OMG your highness we all bow to your supremacy .”
The truth is the truth no matter ho wmany people believe it. When there were only 120 Christians in the upper room -and in the whole world - did that mean Christianity was untrue?
“As for your last line, well have you thought people do not have your faith and think you’re wrong but like I said I suggest you have kids and raise them and then you know how people are and what problems people face.”
The truth doesn’t change no matter how many children a man has, doesn’t have, lost to death in the crib or womb. The truth is always the truth.
“As for Christ, you talk as if you know him and know what he meant but then again it fits your profile”
And you speak as if you don’t know Him and don’t know what he meant but then again that fits your profile.
there you go again, I’m now siding with liberals, you don’t even know me or what I think on most issues, get your head out where it can see sunshine
What do you want from a church born out of adultery?
You wrote:
“Do you really think that she was going to stay a virgin until 29 years old, whether she lived with him or not?”
Yes, if she believed it was important and moral. I have a 31 year old friend getting married in October. She’s a virgin. She’s also gorgeous and was always pursued by men. A 32 year old friend got married in December 2009. She was a virgin. She’s attractive and very athletic. She never lacked for male attention and was engaged once before. Both of them are devout Catholics. Both, not incidentally, studied and teach Theology of the Body. That’s not a coincidence.
You wrote:
“read what you write and ask yourself if I had kids would I still be like this,”
The truth doesn’t change. Just as losing a son to cancer won’t change the truth about the wrongness of cohabitation having more children or no children won’t change it either. If everyone you knew was wiped out tomorrow in a tornado, it still wouldn’t change what is true. If you had never been born, it still wouldn’t change the truth. The truth is not contingent upon you or your knowing it.
“ask yourself about how you live and how you tell people they are all wrong but you are right and then say yourself this.”
It has nothing to do with it. Either something is right and true or it isn’t. It doesn’t matter who or how many believe it.
“Maybe I might not know everything i thought I did and I cannot maybe tell people what is right when I do not know them and they do not have my faith and I sure as heck ARF have more of a problem with others who are homosexuals touching little boys than this.”
And you should. But whether you do or not doesn’t change the fact that cohabitation is wrong. The fact that there are things worse than cohabitation doesn’t mean that cohabitation is right. Murder is worse than arson. That doesn’t mean arson isn’t wrong.
You wrote:
“there you go again, I’m now siding with liberals, you don’t even know me or what I think on most issues, get your head out where it can see sunshine”
What is seen are your words. You are a relativist. You have said - repeatedly - that things are a matter of point of view, walking is someone else’s shoes, etc. That’s relativism. Liberals are always relativists. Conservatives never are. They can’t be.
Marriage is tough. That is no secret. But if you believe that you have to “try out” a person and walk away if it doesn’t suit you — what does that do for anyone? It makes no demands.
If you marry without having lived together beforehand, you WILL come up against obstances. You WILL have a few regrets ...but what it does is demand that the BEST of us rise up and become better people as a result over overcoming all that. It requires patience, forgiveness, humility ...it forges people into stronger versions of themselves.
Walking away doesn’t demand any of that. You remain mired in your own selfish little world, insisting that the next candidate meets your “requirements.” People who want perfection will be sorely disappointed in marriage. They might as well just give up trying.
That’s assuming that we have a fair election and Obama would step down peacefully.
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