Posted on 11/23/2010 12:14:36 AM PST by Cronos
Right now there are churches in almost every country which call themselves Baptists on the sign out front who, nevertheless, arc not Baptists, but in reality are Pentecostal churches.
....Pentecostalism is the belief that the miraculous gifts or signs which the Lord gave to the Apostles and others in the early churches have not ceased, but are still available and are still being exercised by today’s Christians. Pentecostalism claims that God still gives these miraculous gifts to men today. Lists of these gifts can be found in Mark 16:17-18 and 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.
..God’s extraordinary gifts are called this in contrast to those He ordinarily gives in all ages. They are ordinarily not given, but rather were given on extraordinary occasions. These extraordinary gifts were supernatural gifts that enabled their possessors to perform supernatural deeds. Usually when Pentecostals today speak of the gifts or the charismata, they are speaking of these extraordinary gifts, that is, healing, miracles, tongues, direct revelations from God, casting out demons. Pentecostalism teaches that these miraculous gifts, these charismata, are still available to Christians today
(Excerpt) Read more at pbministries.org ...
Compare also 2 Samuel 6:16-23...
Cheers!
The Bible speaks of refraining from quenching the Holy Spirit.
But it also speaks of proving all things.
But Quix made some pretty strong statement such as:
Scripture indicates the Spirit is subject to the individual in such mattersAnd Quix didn't just write that one must be open to such but that one should practice making unintelligible sounds to bring on the Holy Spirit.and
the individual is still a sovereign individual in terms of his own body and faculties
If the case was made that the Holy Spirit was sovereign in bringing on these signs yet only with the acceptance of the person to whom it was offered that then would nullify any pagan inference. But as I read it, one should practice making these sounds because the HS is obligated to respond, which sounds pagan to me.
that was a parade, not a church service and there is no mention of any special appearance of the HS to David in that instance.
Cheers!
While it is good to "test the spirits" and "prove all things" it is not good to go too far so that you reject what really is the Holy Spirit...
Cheers!
Ergo things which may at first glance appear to be "wild" *might* still happen to be inspired by God.
Discernment (rather than broad brush) might be a better tool.
Cheers!
Anything that will convince Baptists that salvation is the starting line instead of the finish line would be good. And once they begin praying in tongues, who knows what they might discover.
David rebuked her, righteously, and God punished her for her remarks.
*** I don’t believe that pentecostals believe that they control God’s actions.***
Yet most of the “Name it and claim it” preachers are Penecostals.
I've turned down “free” money and “free” meals before because I realize they are a come on for someone to try to get into my pocket.
In fact I turned down a “FREE” meal last week at a high dollar steak house because the people wanted me to hear their spiel on how I could get 12.5% interest on my investments!
And I certainly don't pay any attention to those who say they are just one court case away from making me a billionaire because of some “defunct” oil property they say I may have a claim on. “ we need your donations to file the court case! Guaranteed win!”
I'll pass!
As a character in a G.K. Chesterton story remarked, "Where does a wise man hide a leaf? In a forest."
How *do* you tell true manifestations from the Holy Spirit from emotionalism? (...and do people in the neighborhood of such things want to participate, see Simon Peter and Simon Magus in the book of Acts)
...and speaking of 'wizards', then, how do you differentiate the work of the Holy Spirit from festivals such as the Hindi event referred to earlier in the thread?
Point being, yes, shutting all such things out will keep you safe from being taken in; but you might yourself get left out.
Note that I am *not* saying one should lay oneself open for just anything because someone describes it with the word spiritual.
Cheers!
***And once they begin praying in tongues, who knows what they might discover.***
It is interesting that no one spoke in tongues till the Azuza St church started the craze just over 100 years ago.
Several years ago I read a book on tongues. The author tried to make the case that people spoke in tongues way before the Azuza street excesses. When he claimed that certain “churches” were also speaking in tongues the red flag went up!
Standard Christian churches considered those so-called “churches” to be HERETICS, not because of the “tongues” but because of their false doctrines about Christianity.
Qx: I would add that often non Penetcostal types will throw rocks AS THOUGH such hideous problems did NOT occur in NON-Pentecostal churches.
THAT'S UTTER NONSENSE. They just have different flavors and white-wash in non-Pentecostal groups. Often, such carnalities are more devastating because they hide better under more polished and kosher RELIGIOUS GARB.
ON TARGET!!
***Point being, yes, shutting all such things out will keep you safe from being taken in; but you might yourself get left out.****
Pentecostalism smacks too much of Montanism, a heresy in the second century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montanism
Some people have drawn parallels between Montanism and modern Pentecostalism (which some call Neo-Montanism).
Some modern writers have suggested that some of its emphasis on direct, ecstatic personal presence of the Holy Spirit bears resemblance to all forms of Pentecostalism. “It [Montanism] claimed to be a religion of the Holy Spirit and was marked by ecstatic outbursts which it regarded as the only true form of Christianity”,[4] While there may be some similarities between Montanism and modern Pentecostalism, there does not appear to be any historical link between the two, as most Pentecostals claim authenticity based on the New Testament Book of Acts (chapter 2). There is also a similarity to spiritualism.
Cheers!
**Neo-Montanism**
***While there may be some similarities between Montanism and modern Pentecostalism, there does not appear to be any historical link between the two, as most Pentecostals claim authenticity based on the New Testament Book of Acts (chapter 2). There is also a similarity to spiritualism.**
If the Montanist shoe fits the modern Pentecostal so be it.
I’ll pass! My salvation is secure and I don’t need to jump and holler or say glorygloryglory as fast as I can to convince myself of it.
Most denominations accept some level of charismatic manifestations, including mine, but monitor it closely. The problem is that people have great experiences and want to always go back to their experiences. The result being that sometimes they want great experiences more than they want Jesus. Which is idolatry.
I wish you all a wonderful and blessed Thanksgiving!
What father who’s son asks him for bread will give him a stone?
Oh ye of little faith.
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