Mystery of the Trinity

http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/937/Mystery_of_the_Trinity.html ^ | June 11, 2006 | by: Dr. Marcellino D'Ambrosio

[Salvation]

Mystery of the Trinity

by: Dr. Marcellino D'Ambrosio

 

 

The Trinity has always been a difficult doctrine to swallow.  First of all, there is this statement from Sunday’s first reading: “The Lord is God in the heavens above and on the earth below, and there is no other.”  This was tough for anyone to accept in the days of the Old Testament when people generally honored sky gods, sun gods, water gods, and specialized gods for about every aspect of human life and every region of human habitation.  C’mon, there’s only one God?

We might smirk at the ancients, but we have a very similar problem today.  It flows from a philosophy called relativism, but winds up with much the same result.  You might believe in Jesus, I believe in Buddha, and our neighbor reveres Allah.  Your God is true for you, his is for him, mine for me.

 Yet the Bible insists, and the Catholic Church along with it, that there is only one God.  And that God is not an “it”, some impersonal “force”, but a “Him,” more truly personal than any of us.   In fact He is so personal, that from all eternity He is interpersonal–three persons in perfect union of will and activity, so perfect that they are truly One God, not three. Everything in our experience is finite, meaning that it has limits, including the degree of unity that we can have in our relationships.  God’s inner unity, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is unlimited and perfect, love pouring itself, one person into another, ceaselessly, at every moment, for ever and ever amen.

 The author of the Da Vinci Code is not the first to allege that the Church made up this whole Trinity thing.  Various sects in the first few centuries plus the Muslims made this accusation.  Then the Jehovah’s Witnesses rehashed it in the 19^th century, blaming the Roman Emperor Constantine.

 Bur really, everything but the term “Trinity” is right there in the Scriptures.  In Sunday's reading from Romans 8, Paul speaks of the Father, Christ Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all in the same few verses, distinct and yet one.  In John’s Gospel, Jesus dialogues with his Father in prayer, showing their distinction, yet boldly proclaims “The Father and I are One.”  Jesus, in this Sunday’s Gospel, sends forth the disciples to baptize people in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”  Note he does not say in the “names” but in the “name”, showing the unity of these persons.  And baptizing in this triune name demonstrates their equality as well, for what sense would it make to baptize in the name of three, one of whom is God and the other two of whom are not?

 But this feast of the Most Holy Trinity does not just celebrate the nature, grandeur, and beauty of God.  It also recalls that we have been baptized or plunged into this energizing reality of divine love.  God has drawn us in to share in the dynamism of his own inner life.  He has not called us servants, but friends.  It is not just the Holy Spirit who indwells our souls, but the entire Trinity who has made each of us a dwelling place.  The three divine persons are loving each of us in us and want to love others through us.

 Some charge that we call this doctrine a mystery because we want to cover up how illogical and preposterous it is.  No, it is a mystery because it exceeds our powers of imagination and comprehension.  But shouldn’t we expect the inner nature of God to be greater than our finite minds?  Any reality that our minds can master is by definition inferior to our minds.  The Supreme Being by definition has to be greater than our minds.

 Fabrication?  Impossible.  Human minds cook up things that other human beings are likely to buy.  Three gods?  People could handle that.  How about a hierarchy of one supreme God with two assistant demi-gods?  That would work.  Three equal but distinct persons in one divine being strains the brain too much to have been concocted by a bunch of theologians or politicians.

[Pyro7480]

Jesus mediates between God and man through His Incarnation, a hypostatic union of divinity and humanity. John is clear on this.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

[Pyro7480]

You don’t know your Bible: “And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren: Because no word shall be impossible with God.”

[Eagle Eye]

Interpretation must start with understanding clear verses before going to less clear or unclear verses.

You obviously do not understand that God is one as clearly stated, nor do you understand that God is invisible and that no man has seen him at any time.

You don’t understand that God’s only begotten son, Jesus Christ, is/was God’s visible representation on Earth. Jesus was/is clearly subordinate to God, his father.

Jesus taught that if one was unfaithful in small things then one would not be faithful in large things.

If you cannot understand the simple, clear verses then discussing less clear verses is a waste of time.

[Eagle Eye]

Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

That is exactly what I said, God cannot be tempted with evil.

...Because no word shall be impossible with God.”

Meaning that nothing that God has said (either directly of by his prophets) shall be unable to come to pass.

I think you owe me an apology but I have learned not to hold my breath when dealing with..ahem..."christians".

[Pyro7480]

Jesus was/is clearly subordinate to God, his father.

In His human nature, but He and His Father are One, as He said in John 10:30, meaning they're one in their divinity.

Also, remember St. John's warning in 1 John 4:3: "And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world." By "dissolveth," he mean they that deny Him come in either His humanity or His divinity.

You are led by a spirit that is not of God.

[Pyro7480]

I owe you no apology. You owe Christ an apology for “dissolving” Him.

[Eagle Eye]

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

If that means what you say it means then the Bible is full of contradictions and is pretty much worthless for a basis for spiritual truth.

Fortunately I believe you to be wrong and the Bible correct. Jesus is God's son. God says so. Jesus says so.

But you disagree. Not my problem.

You can try all you want to convince me that Jesus is really not God's son but is really God. And you can try really, really hard that three is really one and that one really means three.

But it isn't going to work.

[Pyro7480]

You’re still conveniently ignoring at least two of the Scripture verses I cited, and grasping on to your straws.

[spunkets]

from John 1: "...the Word was God....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us."

This is plain language. The logic is as follows:

Word = God

The Word became flesh and dwelt amoung us. That means God became a man. John 1 also contains the statement that "the Word was with God". That means the Word that became flesh, that was God is the person of God before Jesus the man existed.

[NorthStarStateConservative]

In this context, “water” is used to refer to the liquid state of H2O, not the chemical itself. It’s common to refer to the liquid state of H20 as simply “water”.

[Eagle Eye]

That means God became a man.

Your explanation contradicts verses where the Bible states that God is not a man that he should lie, nor the son of man that he should repent.

No man has seen God at any time. So...if Jesus was God then so one saw him?

Maybe John `1 doesn't quite mean what you have been told it does.

Latching onto that verse to prove your case opens the door to numerous contradictions.

[spunkets]

"Maybe John `1 doesn't quite mean what you have been told it does. Latching onto that verse to prove your case opens the door to numerous contradictions."

It's a plain language unambiguous claim and as such the verse is fundamental. The source for what I've been told is John, a friend of Jesus' that walked with Him while He lived on Earth. Jesus agreed with the plain language given by John in his first chapter. Here is the quote from God.

John 8:58, "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Obviously that is a fundamental claim that takes precedence over anything anyone else says about the matter. It is was given to all and was written by John in plain language. Everything else must be referenced from the fact given in John 8:58, not otherwise.

[spunkets]

"Trinitarianism- ...a false doctrine requiring claims of mysticism and the insane belief that one is really three, that God died and sits on his own right hand. It requires one to adhere to an amazingly inconsistent model that shifts with every challenge and cannot meet simply scriptural scrutiny.

Nonsense.

The trinity is a simple concept. The claim is that there are 3 persons in one. A person, or the person is the individual sentient, rational being that is machinery independent. The machinery is the brain and body which serve to provide for the functions of sentience, rationality and interactions with the physical world.

The essence of the person is contained in the spirit, which is a non-physical instance of the person. In order for there to be an actual physical instance of the person, there must be some machinery that provides for the functions of spirit. That machinery is the body. In order for that spirit to have a real instance of person in more than one world, 2 in this case, there must be 2 bodies.

Trinity: The essence of person, the sentient rational being and the 2 real instances of that person in the 2 worlds provided for by the physical machinery of body.

Trinity is required for logical consisteny with the claims contained in the Bible and is consistent with the statement in Gen 1:26, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness..."

"that God died and sits on his own right hand. "

Who can be God's right hand man, other than God Himself?

[Eagle Eye]

Again, your model has many flaws and puts the Bible at odds with itself.

“I am” is not secret code for “I am God”.

Even “I am that I am” is a poor translation of the Hebrew which is better translated ‘I will become what I will become’ or I will be what I need to be. This is evident with the redemptive names of God and I’m sure that if you’re not familiar you can google the term.

Jesus was talking to the pharisees or saducees (don’t recall at the moment) and was reiterating that Abraham *was* the way of righteousness...and that if they were really living up to their claim of being of Abraham they would be happy to see Jesus. Abraham *was* the way or righteousness. Jesus became the way of righteousness.

Previously Abraham was. Currently I am.

Jesus Christ. The way, they truth, the life. The only way to God is through Jesus. Wouldn’t that be silly to say that the only way to God was through God if Jesus is God?

[Eagle Eye]

The claim is that there are 3 persons in one. 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.

In case an explanation is needed, there is only one true God and God is only one. Not two. Not three. God is one.

[spunkets]

"Again, your model has many flaws and puts the Bible at odds with itself. “I am” is not secret code for “I am God”. Even “I am that I am” is a poor translation of the Hebrew which is better translated ‘I will become what I will become’ or I will be what I need to be. This is evident with the redemptive names of God and I’m sure that if you’re not familiar you can google the term."

Rubbish.

Exodus 3:13-15( from the Hebrew Bible), And Moses said unto God: 'Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them: The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me: What is His name? what shall I say unto them?' And God said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.' And God said moreover unto Moses: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations.

The Jews are experts regarding their language. This passage clearly has God announcing His name as "I Am".

"Jesus was talking to the pharisees or saducees (don’t recall at the moment) and was reiterating that Abraham *was* the way of righteousness...and that if they were really living up to their claim of being of Abraham they would be happy to see Jesus. Abraham *was* the way or righteousness. Jesus became the way of righteousness. Previously Abraham was. Currently I am."

More rubbish. John 8:58, "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

"Wouldn’t that be silly to say that the only way to God was through God if Jesus is God?"

No. God's judgement is based on how one values the things of the Holy Spirit- the things He values. God has no need for, nor can anyone else be an intermediary. It is written, that they will all be taught by God, not that they would be taught by an intermediary.

[spunkets]

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.

As noted above the man Jesus Christ identified Himself by name and indicated that He existed before Abraham. Using simple cuts from third persons, or those further removed, in an attempt to trump, or contradict what the person Himself says about Himself is illogical.

"In case an explanation is needed, there is only one true God and God is only one. Not two. Not three. God is one."

Of course God is one, the same as I am. Nevertheless, the concept of trinity accounts for the essence of and the instantiation of persons/individuals in the 2 worlds.

[Eagle Eye]

God has no need for, nor can anyone else be an intermediary.

That statement contradicts quite a few clear verses!

Jesus Christ is the intermediary.

But, according to your theory, no one say Jesus because God is invisible and Jesus is God, right?

[spunkets]

Re: God has no need for, nor can anyone else be an intermediary.

"That statement contradicts quite a few clear verses!

It contradicts none. God is His own intermediary. since He is, the term is extraneous. What's important to note is that: "they will all be taught by God and that the Apostles had seen and lived with God.

"...God is invisible and Jesus is God, right?

Jesus is God. Invisable? He's just as invisible to me as you are. Try to figure out why.