Posted on 01/11/2008 10:59:47 AM PST by DouglasKC
I know some are going to disagree (and that's probably putting it mildly) but please disagree with the substance of the article.
Nope.
It actually means OTH day.
(OVER THE HUMP) day.
>> They must resort to arguments based on Church traditions that were not in place until Constantine. <<
Derailed instantly.
***[1] Throughout this article, “CLNT” is used when citing the Concordant Literal New Testament, published by the Concordant Publishing Concern, Canyon Country, CA. It is one of the most helpful, literal, and scholarly translations of the New Testament available.***
A Universal Reconcilliationist dispensational group.
***[5] Bullinger was an unorthodox Anglican scholar who taught at Oxford University up until his death in 1913. He was a man of considerable knowledge, whose Companion Bible is among the best study Bibles available today.***
Bullinger would be classed as an Ultra-Dispensationalist who believed the “Body of Christ church)”did not begin till Acts 28.
Quote from the article:
“Frankly, it is not a stretch to suggest that Constantine was like Satan offering the Church the whole world and the dominion thereof, as long as they did his bidding, and the Church said, “That sounds like a good deal.””
Actually it is a tremendous stretch because the exact opposite happened. Constantine tried to dominate the Church after Nicaea, and the Church resisted.
From the article: “...Concordant Literal New Testament, published by the Concordant Publishing Concern, Canyon Country, CA. It is one of the most helpful, literal, and scholarly translations of the New Testament available.”
Hmmmm.....
http://www.1john57.com/literalerror.htm
http://www.1john57.com/laird.htm
Well....as of yet I have not seen anyone comment on the mistranslation of “MIA TWN SABBATON”.
It’s not difficult to see why. Their entire theology comes crashing to the ground without their “SOL INVICTUS”. Actually, it’s very sad....but scriptural I guess [Mark 13:5-6].
“Actually it is a tremendous stretch because the exact opposite happened. Constantine tried to dominate the Church after Nicaea, and the Church resisted.”
Vlad is absolutely right, DKC, as I have noted elsewhere. This is a particularly pernicious falsehood which seems to have deeply rooted itself in various American ecclesial groups. As dangus noted, it is an argument which simply ruins whatever else of value might be lurking in a writing.
Our university library has the collected works of Martin Luther. Takes up a shelf and a half and it is all dense analysis. It might be noted that the writers of the NT when writing in Greek were using a second language. John might have been the best writer in Greek. Also, most of the NT was written about the period when the disciples were teaching among the Jews and the reach out to the gentiles didn’t really get going until Luke’s Acts where the Sabbath wouldn’t have had so much cultural meaning.
Derailed instantly.
Would you like to address the point salient to the comment you clipped?
" Therefore, the mass hypnosis that intellectually transforms this phrase into something other than its literal meaning happens on the presumption that it is an idiomatic expression-- “mia/one” being used for “first,” and “sabbaton” being using for “week,” and “day” being thrown in just so they can make sense out of their non-literal invention. However, I have yet to find one commentary or lexicon citing an example of mia ton sabbaton being used idiomatically outside the Bible in other Greek writings. Therefore, if it is a figure of speech, prove it. The burden of proof is on the translators. This they cannot do lexicologically. They must resort to arguments based on Church traditions that were not in place until Constantine.
Is the understanding of mia ton sabbaton a tradition...or a linguistic fact?
Thank you for your opinion. Do you have an opinion on the actual topic of the paper?
Ditto...see above.
I was honestly expecting a spirited defense based upon the greek meanings and citations of ancient non-biblical documents that translate "mia twn sabbaton" as the "first day of the week".
I'm amazed that apparently there may be a shared common delusion that this phrase does actually mean "first day of the week". At least nobody is trying to defend that position.
I’m not convinced because of things such as the following:
Apologetics Press :: Scripturally Speaking
“The First Day of the Week”
by Eric Lyons, M.Min.
All four gospel accounts reveal how Jesus rose (and His tomb was found empty) “on the first day of the week” (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1; cf. 20:19). Years later, Paul wrote to the Corinthian church commanding them to make regular contributions “on the first day of the week” (1 Corinthians 16:2; or “on the first day of every week”—NASB, NIV, RSV). Luke recorded in the book of Acts how Paul, while on his third missionary journey, assembled with the Christians in Troas “on the first day of the week” (20:7). The phrase “the first day of the week” appears eight times in the most widely used English translations of the New Testament. Based on this reading of the text, along with various supplemental passages (e.g., Revelation 1:10), Christians assemble to worship God on Sunday. Upon looking at the Greek text, however, some have questioned the integrity of the translation “the first day of the week,” wondering if a better wording would be “the Sabbath day.”
Admittedly, a form of the Greek word for sabbath (sabbaton or sabbatou) does appear in each of the eight passages translated “first day of the week.” For example, in Acts 20:7 this phrase is translated from the Greek mia ton sabbaton. However, sabbaton (or sabbatou) is never translated as “the Sabbath day” in these passages. Why? Because the word is used in these contexts (as Greek scholars overwhelmingly agree) to denote a “week” (Perschbacher, 1990, p. 364), “a period of seven days” (Danker, et al., 2000, p. 910; cf. Thayer, 1962, p. 566). Jesus once used the term “Sabbath” in this sense while teaching about the sinfulness of self-righteousness (Luke 18:9). He told a parable of the sanctimonious Pharisee who prayed: “God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess” (18:11-12, emp. added). The phrase “twice a week” comes from the Greek dis tou sabbatou. Obviously Jesus was not saying that the Pharisee boasted of fasting twice on the Sabbath day, but twice (dis) a week (tou sabbatou).
According to R.C.H. Lenski, since “[t]he Jews had no names for the weekdays,” they “designated them with reference to their Sabbath” (1943, p. 1148). Thus, mia ton sabbaton means “the first (day) with reference to the Sabbath,” i.e., the first (day) following the Sabbath (Lenski, p. 1148), or, as we would say in 21st century English, “the first day of the week.”
After spending years examining Jewish writings in the Babylonian Talmud, Hebraist John Lightfoot wrote A Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica, in which he expounded upon the Hebrew method of counting the days of the week. He noted: “The Jews reckon the days of the week thus; One day (or the first day) of the sabbath: two (or the second day) of the sabbath;” etc. (1859, 2:375, emp. in orig.). Lightfoot then quoted from two different Talmud tractates. Maccoth alludes to those who testify on “the first of the sabbath” about an individual who stole an ox. Judgment was then passed the following day—“on the second day of the sabbath” (Lightfoot, 2:375, emp. in orig.; Maccoth, Chapter 1). Bava Kama describes ten enactments ordained by a man named Ezra, including the public reading of the law “on the second and fifth days of the sabbath,” and the washing of clothes “on the fifth day of the sabbath” (Lightfoot, 2:375; Bava Kama, Chapter 7). In Michael Rodkinson’s 1918 translation of Maccoth and Bava Kama, he accurately translated “the second day of the sabbath” as Monday, “the fifth day of the sabbath” as Thursday, and “the first of the sabbath” as Sunday.
If the word sabbaton in passages such as Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2, and Acts 20:7 actually denoted “the Sabbath day,” rather than “a period of seven days,” one would expect some of the foremost Bible translations to translate it thusly. Every major English translation of the Bible, however, translates mia ton sabbaton as “the first day of the week.” Why? Because scholars are aware of the Jewish method of counting the days of the week by using the Sabbath as a reference point.
Finally, consider the difficulty that would arise with Jesus’ resurrection story if sabbaton was translated Sabbath. “Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. Very early in the morning, on the first Sabbath (sabbaton), they came to the tomb when the sun had risen” (emp. added). Such a rending of sabbaton in Mark 16:2 would be nonsensical. The Sabbath was over, and the mia ton sabbaton (“first day of the week”) had begun. The passage is understood properly only when one recognizes the Jewish method of reckoning weekdays.
Just as second century apologists Justin Martyr (ca. A.D. 150) spoke of Jesus as rising from the dead “on the first day after the Sabbath” (Dialogue..., 41), and equated this day with “Sunday” (“First Apology,” 67), so should 21st century Christians. That Jesus rose from the dead “on the first day of the week” (Mark 16:9), and that Christians gathered to worship on this day (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2; cf. Justin Martyr, “First Apology,” 67), is an established fact. Sunday is the first day after the Jewish Sabbath—the “first day of the week.”
REFERENCES
Danker, Frederick William, William Arndt, and F.W. Gingrich, (2000), Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Chicago, IL: University of Chicago Press).
Justin Martyr, (1973 reprint), Dialogue with Trypho, in The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans).
Justin Martyr (1973 reprint), First Apology, in The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans).
Lenski, R.C.H. (1943), The Interpretation of St. Matthew’s Gospel (Minneapolis, MN: Augsburg).
Lightfoot, John (1979 reprint), A Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker).
Perschbacher, Wesley J., ed. (1990), The New Analytical Greek Lexicon (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson).
Rodkinson, Michael, trans. (1918), The Babylonian Talmud, [On-line], URL: http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm#t06.
Thayer, Joseph (1962 reprint), Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan).
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***Thank you for your opinion. Do you have an opinion on the actual topic of the paper?***
Well, the standard belief is that the “sabbath” reffers to the first day of the feast of first fruits which always comes on a SUNDAY.
Or more technical, “the first day of the first week of the seven weeks before Penticost.”
The Pharsees offered it on the second day of Unleavened bread.
The Sadducees offered it on the day after the Sabbath during Passover week.
The Biblical day was to be on the day after the Sabbath of the week in which the first harvest was made.
Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
Sabbaton is not a Greek word. It is Hebrew and it denotes a "Special Sabbath".....not a weekly one. The Greeks had no corresponding word for this kind of Sabbath so "Sabbatwn" was invented for the Greek translation. Needless to say, Sabbatwn was not a translation for week. It was a translation for special Sabbaths. Every time you see this word in the New Testament it refers to one of the seven special Sabbaths between Passover and Pentecost. In the Hebrew it also referenced God's Holy Annual Sabbaths as well as the special seven between Pesach and Shavuot.
In [Acts 20:6] Paul is marking time by referencing the "Days of Unleavened" (Passover) and in verse 16....Pentecost. This is why the term "Sabbatwn" in used. It refers to those days.....and not the first day of the week! In verse 7 which is usually translated as "The first day of the Week" it should actually say "On one of the Sabbaths. Which one? One of the Sabbaths between Passover and Pentecost.
That's what the Greek means and that is the gist of this subject. The Hebrew is "Shabbatot" and the word in Hebrew for an ordinary Sabbath is "Shabbot". The New Testament writers translated Shabbatot to Sabbatwn.
Bottom line......whenever you see Sabbatwn in the New Testament it is a Special Sabbath. In your references [Matthew 28:1][Mark 16:2][Luke 24:1][John 20:1][John 20:19] and [1 Corinthians 16:2] the Greek reads "On one of the Sabbaths"......not "First day of the week."
All of these are scholars who agree that, IN CONTEXT, the first day of the week is meant here. In other words, their bias is that it's referring to the first day of the week, Sunday, therefore it must be meant. Circular logic.
He told a parable of the sanctimonious Pharisee who prayed: “God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess” (18:11-12, emp. added). The phrase “twice a week” comes from the Greek dis tou sabbatou. Obviously Jesus was not saying that the Pharisee boasted of fasting twice on the Sabbath day, but twice (dis) a week (tou sabbatou).
At first glance, this is the "gotcha" phrase. The posted article says this about the verse:
"Does this mean that the writers of the N.T. never wished to convey the idea of a week? The one place where it is fairly certain that a Sunday through Saturday week was meant (Luke 18:12), the words “tou sabbatou” are used. It is important to note they are singular (2nd declension). Notice the Pharisee prays with himself, saying, “I fast twice a week (tou sabbatou).” (Wm. Barclay’s N.T.)
The Concordant Literal is equally accurate: “I fast twice of a Sabbath.” In this instance, Sabbath is being used metonymously to represent the seven day period for which it is the culmination. There is a well-known precedent for this in the Old Testament--the unique method (as compared to the other holy days) given for counting to the Feast of Firstfruits (Pentecost) in Lev. 23. When one counts toward Pentecost Sunday in Lev. 23:15-16, seven Shabbats were counted. “Seven Sabbaths shall be complete” is how it is phrased in Lev. 23:15. The Hebrew word here can only be construed as the weekly Sabbath. It was called the Feast of weeks (shavuot) in Exod. 34:22 and Deut. 16:10, but those weeks were perfect seven-day periods ending with Saturdays. The morrow after the 7th Sabbath was the 50th day, which constituted the total number of days to be counted (Lev. 23:16). Based on this, the Pharisee of Luke 18 is saying he fasts twice per weekly Sabbath period, Sabbatou being used by metonymy for the week it consummates.
But the fact that the Holy Spirit uses the singular words “tou sabbatou” in Luke 18 when intending to convey the concept of a week, leads us to question why Luke would not also use the singular in Luke 24:1 and Acts 20:7 [mia ton sabbaton (plural) occurring in both verses] to convey “the first day of the week,” if that is what he had meant. The contrast between singular and plural usages of tou(on) sabbatou(on) by gospel writer Luke, proved that when the Holy Spirit wanted to convey a single week, as in Luke 18:12, the singular was used, but when he wanted to convey “one of the Sabbaths”, he used the plural (ton sabbaton). These facts may be confirmed by checking with the Englishman’s Greek Concordance. We will see further confirmation when it is shown that Yeshua rose from the dead at the beginning of a weekly Sabbath.
The main points are:
1. That "sabbath" is singular when referring to a "week" as opposed to other "week" translations where it's plural.
2. This isn't referring to a particular DAY of the week, but a particular period. The point he's making on this isn't very clear, but it IS when you know a little background.
Pharisee's fasted TWICE each week between Passover and Pentecost. They counted each of these weeks (and these weeks ONLY) as a sabbath week.
Now about the fast, from Roberts Word Picture:
Twice in the week (dis tou sabbatou). One fast a year was required by the law (Lev_16:29; Num_29:7). The Pharisees added others, twice a week between passover and pentecost, and between tabernacles and dedication of the temple.
The Pharisee is boasting that he fasts "twice in a sabbath". Those who heard it would KNOW that he was referring to one or all of the "sabbath weeks" counted from Passover to Pentecost.
You see?
According to R.C.H. Lenski, since “[t]he Jews had no names for the weekdays,” they “designated them with reference to their Sabbath” (1943, p. 1148). Thus, mia ton sabbaton means “the first (day) with reference to the Sabbath,” i.e., the first (day) following the Sabbath (Lenski, p. 1148), or, as we would say in 21st century English, “the first day of the week.”
This is very subtle. Yes and no.
This page shows how hebrew designates days. Sunday is "echad yom" or "yom echad"....or "one day". These terms exactly correspond with the creation account:
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first echad day Yom.
Thanks for posting this by the way. I couldn't quite grasp what the author of the original article was saying about Luke 18:12 until I did some study. Now it's pretty clear.
I know you accept the "scholarship" on this and it's tough to believe otherwise. But when you can use tools to prove it yourself then their arguments fall apart pretty quickly and you can see that they only support this fiction because to do otherwise means going against a basic, traditional Christian doctrine.
I need to sleep but I'll see if I get a chance to respond to the rest of your rebuttal later this weekend.
You know as I said in my last post I just finally understood this tonight. I've seen you say this a billion times but it didn't sink in. I'm afraid I don't have much hope for anyone believing or understanding. I've known about the sabbath counts, the weeks, between Passover and Pentecost for 6 years and knew that "first day of the week" contained sabbatwn, but couldn't link them until tonight. At any rate it's a fantastic revelation and it really makes those scriptures comes alive.
By the way, I don't know if you use the bible program "E-Sword" or not, but I'm in the process of porting the Concordant Publishing Concern of the New Testament (the translation referred to multiple time in the article) over to an E-Sword Bible module. I'm about a third of the way done and if you need a copy let me know. It's not copyrighted if it's used for private use.
It’s a linguistic fact. Constantine did not change the day of worship, but affirmed the change that had already taken place from the day of worship of the Jews. Unless you confess that all of Christianity was at the time under the Roman pope (as even Catholics wouldn’t), Constantine had no tool to make such a change. Thus the statement, “They must resort to arguments based on Church traditions that were not in place until Constantine” is a prepostrous assertion that merely plays upon the restorationist, revisionist tendencies of many Protestant churches.
That Mark 16:9 (where “protos ton sabbathon” is used) refers to a different day than Mark 16:2 (”mia ton sabbathon”) is flatly absurd, because it refers to the morning when Jesus first rose: Risen in the first morning of.... (”proy proti sabbaton”). That Mark also uses “mia ton sabbathon” for this same event only confirms that “mia ton sabbathon” means [day] one of the Sabbath.
Why does Mark use “proti” in one place, and not “mia?” Only because proti refers to the first *morning*. When Mark means to say “One Sabbath,” or “On one of the Sabbaths,” he says, “en toys sabbathyn.”
The other thing that Mark 16:9 demonstrates is that “sabbathon” clearly is used as “week,” since “the first morning of the week” makes sense, whereas “the first morning of the Saturday” is retarded.
Thus:
From Mark 16:9, we establish that Jesus rose on a Sunday morning.
Comparing this to Mark 16:2, we can confirm that “One of Sabbath” means “Day one of the week,” not “On a given Saturday.”
Thus, just to pile on, we can find in Acts that the Christians broke bread together on “Day one of the week.”
Some other points:
The author cites the Word Bible Commentary’s as if its “admission” represents an old-line church’s concession of the point. WBC is a recent publication by a Baptist preacher. I’ve known many Baptists to have very strong restorationist tendencies.
But, actually, proper nouns are the only cases this is true. Words change to fit the new culture’s needs. (Pajamas, anyone?) Greeks didn’t have weeks. Hebrews counted weeks by counting Sabbaths. So, its use as “week” by Greeks would be quite normal. Indeed, the author concedes its use as “Week” later.
Hebdomados means a set of seven, and is used to mean week nowadays very frequently. (In fact, those papist=loving Greeks use it in modern bibles instead of Sabbathon) BUt while Hebdomados was useful in some biblical concepts, using “mia (or protos) ton hebdomados” would have been confusing when the concept of week was still weak in Hellenic culture.
Actually, the word “hebdomados” is never used in the New Testament. So in every case “week” is used, it is used to translate “sabbaton.” I’m not sure which translators the author means, but in my NRSV, “dys tou sabbaton” is translated “twice a week.” Indeed, how silly would it be for him to say, “I fast twice every Saturday” or “twice every holy day.”
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