Posted on 12/09/2007 7:37:46 AM PST by Ottofire
LOL - I wonder if calling down a curse from Jesus is making it personal?
You care to explain that???
Then you are saying that all the prophets are ungodly — your word?
I don’t think God agrees with you, or else their scriptures, inspired by the Holy Spirit, would not be in the Bible...................even the KJV! Imagine that!
Two Other Ways the Fruits of this Sacrament may be Received
In addition to the normative Baptism by water and Spirit that Christ commands, there are also the merciful "Baptism of Desire" and "Baptism of Blood." While Christ has given us the Sacrament as outlined above, and we are bound to obey Him, the fruits of sacramental Baptism may be had through these two other means. We must remember that while we are bound by the Sacraments, God is not, and He can pour out His graces in other ways.
Baptismus flaminis sive Spiritus Sancti -- "Baptism of Desire" (also called "Baptism of Fire") -- is the supernatural benefits of the Sacrament of Baptism granted, by the grace of Christ, to someone who explicitly or implicitly vows to receive Baptism but who, through no fault of his own, is unable to receive water Baptism as Christ desires and commanded. In order to be "baptized" in this way, one must have faith in God, be penitent, be animated by charity, and have the will to obey God's commands (which includes the command to be baptized in water and Spirit), even if not properly catechized. This sort of Baptism is summarized by St. Augustine (A.D. 354-430) in City of God:
For whatever unbaptized persons die confessing Christ, this confession is of the same efficacy for the remission of sins as if they were washed in the sacred font of baptism. For He who said, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God," made also an exception in their favor, in that other sentence where He no less absolutely said, "Whosoever shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven;" and in another place, "Whosoever will lose his life for my sake, shall find it." And this explains the verse, "Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints." For what is more precious than a death by which a man's sins are all forgiven, and his merits increased an hundred fold?
It is formally mentioned in Session 7, Canon 4 of the Council of Trent:
If anyone says that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation, but that they are superfluous; and that men can, without the sacraments or the desire of them, obtain the grace of justification by faith alone, although it is true that not all the sacraments are necessary for each individual, let him be anathema.
Baptismus sanguinis -- "Baptism of Blood" -- is the supernatural benefits of the Sacrament of Baptism granted, by the grace of Christ, to someone who is martyred in defense of the Faith. This sort of Baptism is explained by St. John Chrysostom (A.D. 347-407):
Do not wonder that I called martyrdom a baptism: indeed there too the Spirit comes with much abundance, and words there the remission of sins and a wonderful and astonishing purification of the soul; and as those who are baptized by waters are washed, so those who suffer martyrdom are washed in their own blood.
"Baptism of Desire" is a much-abused concept... twisted beyond recognition such that it leads to the false idea of universal salvation, to a denial of the need to be a part of the Church to be saved, and to disobedience to Christ's command to preach the Gospel and to baptize. Its meaning must be kept crystal-clear: the Church's teaching is that Baptism -- which includes "Baptism of Desire" and Baptism of Blood" -- is necessary for salvation, as it is how one enters the Church, outside of which there is no salvation. Those who are able to be baptized by water and Spirit must be baptized by water and Spirit. Those who are unable to receive the Sacrament in the normal way, but would receive the Sacrament if he were able, might receive sanctifying grace, under the conditions above, and be united to the soul of the Church. Meanwhile, we are to preach the Gospel and bring all to the Church -- the source of the Sacraments which are media of grace. This is what we were told to do by Christ, and what we must do! Those we can't reach are left to the mercy of God, and we can only pray -- but never presume -- that their souls are illuminated before death so they are contrite for their sins and filled with a love for God that can save them per the sanctifying grace of "Baptism of Desire," thereby uniting them with the soul of the Church outside of which there is no salvation.
Scholarship??? You mean making a claim of a religious practice that isn't in the scripture passes for Catholic Scholarship???
And if these scholars tell you that Mary is the Queen of Heaven even tho it's un-Biblical, you will,,,oh, nevermind...
The premise of your question is false.
Excellent reference.
WAA-HOOO!
Piper!
Your church may teach this but God doesn't...The scripture clearly teaches that you will be a member of the body of Christ, the church, AFTER you have been saved...
And that FACT led to the Reformation whereby millions upon millions of peple got saved and became members of the body of Christ due to the endeavors of Martin Luther to get the words of God into the languages that non-Catholics could read for themselves...
Isn't it amazing that when people learned what God actually said, they flocked to him in droves, and still do...
Actually, the "Reformation" was part of a first stage in a Revolution against God and His Body the Church. Secularism is an outflow of the earlier Reformation. Why do you think just 250 years after Martin Luther came Rousseau and his progeny, the leaders of the French Revolution?
You better be praying that God has mercy on the ignorant.
You are making the assumption that your church is the Body of Christ, therefore the Reformers were against God...That's where your error lies...
As I said, the Reformers were finally able to read the words of God for themselves...They found out that many of the things your church taught were not true at all...
Can you imagine how many of the Catholics left your church to hear the truth of the scriptures???
These people may have been against your church but they were FOR God, not against Him...
Secularism is an outflow of the earlier Reformation.
If you consider bible believing Protestants as being secular, then I suppose that is an accurate statement...
The early Reformers however, believed God when he told everyone that the Kingdom that He offered was Spiritual and not the physical Kingdom of your church...We do not need (nor want) a physical religion to grant us salvation...It is not yours to give...We live in the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of God lives within us...
Why do you think just 250 years after Martin Luther came Rousseau and his progeny
250 years is an awfully long time...You sound as tho it's the same as 10 or 20 years...
Yeah, I am going to have to keep posting this series.
I know those that think they are born again through a bit of sprinkled water are just a bit tangled in their traditions, so perhaps one or two will actually READ the article and be given the ears to hear the true Gospel.
Yes, please do!
[Actually, the “Reformation” was part of a first stage in a Revolution against God and His Body the Church. Secularism is an outflow of the earlier Reformation. Why do you think just 250 years after Martin Luther came Rousseau and his progeny, the leaders of the French Revolution?]
yawn...still deluded by visions of anachronistic truimphalism.
Viva Cristo Rey!
Why did Jesus Christ DESCEND into Hell??? I thonk it wa to RETRIEVE all those people and others like them.
LOL!!
Do you believe in ANY MARTYRED SAINTS?? You better not because they aren’t in the Bible!!
Long live Christ, the prophet, the priest, the king!
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