You Must Be Born Again

Desiring God Ministries ^ | November 18, 2007 | John Piper

[Ottofire]

Philippians 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Is your heart changed by your faith?

[Ottofire]

GRPL Piper Ping!

Joyous Lords Day to all!

[maine-iac7]

..

[steadfastconservative]

One is born again when one is baptized with water and the Holy Spirit. The only way that one can receive a share in God’s supernatural life is through the sacrament of baptism. Without baptism there is no salvation.

[bigcat32]

“Without baptism there is no salvation.”

What about the thief who was crucified next to Jesus. He believed in Christ while hanging on the cross (no water Baptism) and Jesus promised him eternal life.

[Pyro7480]

That’s called baptism of desire.

[Ottofire]

...or the death bed conversion.

This gets into the whole, well, if the intent is there, then the intent counts, and that becomes the if you are willing to follow Christ and His word, and are willing to be baptized, then you are saved. Which leads to baptism is NOT necessary for salvation, only the submission to the Savior.

Unless they are saying that Christ on the Cross lied to the Thief.

[bigcat32]

Here’s a spicy meatball, what’s your view of infant Baptism? Many adults have been Baptised as infants and acknowledge the ressurection of Christ and live their lives that show the fruits of that belief.

[Salvation]

A priest can administer the following sacraments at a death bed conversion:
Baptism
Confirmation
Holy Eucharist
Anointing of the Sick

Our priest has also done another since the wife was their and the person dying wanted to have their marriage approved by the Church, so he administered the Sacrament of Matrimony.

The Sacrament of Reconciliation is not necessary because the Baptism takes away all the previous sin.

[Salvation]

And the Catholic Church believes that these infants, baptized as children, are indeed, born again.

They later receive the Sacraments of Eucharist, Reconciliation and as a teenage, Confirmation. However, in some instances the Sacrament of Confirmation is also administered by the priest at the time of the infant baptism.

[P-Marlowe]

One is born again when one is baptized with water and the Holy Spirit. The only way that one can receive a share in God’s supernatural life is through the sacrament of baptism. Without baptism there is no salvation.

That would mean the following people were never saved.

Moses
David
Jonah
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Joseph
Abraham
Issac
Jacob
Daniel
Ezekiel
John the Baptist
The thief on the cross

Actually the "baptism" that counts is not the one administered by men, but the one administered by God.

Have you been given THAT baptism?

[Iscool]

That’s called baptism of desire.

Then you agree that water baptism is NOT necessary for salvation...

[Iscool]

Here’s a spicy meatball, what’s your view of infant Baptism?

Not spicy at all...Believe God or believe your church...

God says baptism was done AFTER you made a decision for Jesus...No baby in the world has ever made a decision for Jesus...Hence, a baptized baby is a wet baby...And that's all...

The big question is 'What are you counting on to get to heaven???'...But then again, Heaven apparently means different things to different people...

[Pyro7480]

That’s the wrong conclusion. It means that baptism of desire is a form of the Sacrament.

[Petronski]

Then you agree that water baptism is NOT necessary for salvation...

There seems to be a very clear exception for those who are crucified next to Jesus Christ.

[Salvation]

1281 Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized (cf. LG 16).

[Petronski]

Thanks, yes.

I was being sardonic.

[Iscool]

1281 Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, can be saved even if they have not been baptized (cf. LG 16).

Only those who have never heard of the Catholic church can be saved without water baptism...

Talk about a cultish idea...You'll NOT find that is the written instructions of God...That rule is made up by the people that run your church and has noting to do with God or His plan of salvation...You could not come up with something more UN-Godly...

That's exactly the way the Pharisees taught and you guys just continue with their Tradition...Jesus rebuked them and He WILL rebuke you...

[Iscool]

And I wasn’t being sardonic...

[Petronski]

Talk about a cultish idea...You'll NOT find that is the written instructions of God...That rule is made up by the people that run your church and has noting to do with God or His plan of salvation...You could not come up with something more UN-Godly...

I can go with two millennia of scholarship by the Church founded by Christ, or I can go with anonymous Catholic-hater-guy.

Hmmm, quite the poser. </SardonicMode>