Catholic Caucus: How the Infallibility of the Magisterium Protects Us

CatholicExchange.com ^ | 08-10-06 | Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Ph.D

[Salvation]

by Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Ph.D.

Other Articles by Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Ph.D.

How the Infallibility of the Magisterium Protects Us

08/10/06

		If there is any dogma that sticks in the craw of non-Catholics, it is the dogma of papal infallibility. “How” ask many, “can Catholics actually believe that any human being is incapable of error?”
In This Article... By Divine Assistance What If Bishops Disagree? Special Authority of the Successor of Peter

By Divine Assistance

But what about the human authors of sacred Scripture? The Gospel narratives are quite frank about the foibles of Peter, Paul, and the rest. But all Christians believe that their writings come not from them, but were inspired by the Holy Spirit. In all that they teach us about God and His plan for our salvation, they are therefore “inerrant.”

The pope and bishops of the Catholic Church are no less human than the Aapostles and evangelists. Left to themselves, they can make their share of mistakes. But in their capacity as apostolic teachers, they are not left to themselves. They receive divine assistance much like Peter received at Caesarea Philippi when he blurted out that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God (Mt 16:16-17).

So the Church believes that when the bishops of the world, in the course of their ordinary teaching and preaching, together present a doctrine to God’s people as something revealed by God, they teach this dogma infallibly by virtue of the ordinary, universal Magisterium.

What If Bishops Disagree?

But sometimes it is hard to precisely identify what all bishops of the world agree upon in their daily teaching. So when serious doctrinal disputes arose in the early Church, councils of bishops gathered to settle things.

These special councils were called “ecumenical” from the Greek word for “household.” They dealt with matters pertaining to the whole household of the faith and represented all the bishops of the world. Hence their judgments, once confirmed by the pope, were considered binding on the whole Christian family. Some of their pronouncements had to do with discipline, and so are not binding on all generations. Some of their teaching was doctrinal, pertaining to faith and morals, but was presented in an ordinary way. But sometimes the council fathers engaged the fullness of their apostolic authority and issued solemn dogmatic definitions in which they fundamentally guaranteed that a certain truth is revealed by God. They usually make crystal clear their intent to define a dogma by strongly condemning contradictory teachings and noting that those who hold such heretical opinions have put themselves outside the Church.

From about the 9th century, we can document a widespread belief that dogmatic decrees by ecumenical councils are infallible in light of the assistance given to the council fathers by the Holy Spirit (see Acts 15:28).

Special Authority of the Successor of Peter

But what if a council could not be called in time to respond to a crisis? Would it remain up for grabs how we should interpret the Scriptures and identify the authentic apostolic Tradition?

Medieval theologians said no. They saw the special assistance given to Peter by the Spirit in Matthew 16:16. They noted the extraordinary track record of the popes of the first millennium in upholding orthodoxy even when many of the great bishops and patriarchs from around the world fell into heresy. Many concluded that the successor of Peter is assisted by the Spirit in a particular way. If he should teach ex cathedra (literally “from the chair” of Peter), engaging the fullness of his apostolic teaching authority on a matter pertaining to faith and morals, his judgment is indeed infallible. From about the 12th century this became a widespread opinion and was defined as dogma by the First Vatican Council in 1870.

Infallibility, then, is not a burden, but a necessary gift, indeed a charism of the Holy Spirit. Without it, the promise made by Christ at Caesarea Philippi could not be kept. Remember, He guaranteed that the jaws of death would not prevail against His Church. But if the Church had no sure way to locate the truth, the jaws of death would be free to gobble up many and shatter the remaining flock into a million pieces.


Dr. D'Ambrosio studied under Avery Cardinal Dulles for his Ph.D. in historical theology and taught for many years at the University of Dallas. He now directs www.crossroadsinitiative.com, which offers Catholic resources for RCIA, adult faith formation, and teens, with a special emphasis on the Year of the Eucharist, the Theology of the Body, the early Church Fathers, and the sacrament of confirmation.

(This article originally appeared in Our Sunday Visitor and is used by permission of the author.)

[nmh]

"Haven't you ever asked anyone to pray for you? That's what we ask Mary to do for us. We ask her to pray for us."

Mary is just another sinner. Mary is not God. Mary has NO authority. Just as I wouldn't ask my dead Grandmother in heaven to pray for me - it's pointless. Living people can pray for you - there's nothing wrong with that.

The Bible instructs you to pray to Christ, the living God, and the Holy Spirit intercedes for you. No where does it state Mary is a "co redeemer". Dead fallible sinners have NO authority to intercede for anyone. I NEVER pray to anyone but Christ and let the Holy Spirit intercede FOR me just as the Bible states. PRaying to dead, fallible mortals is off limits for me.

I and other believers call high and direct, as we should. Praying FOR others is fine, however WHO you pray TO makes a BIG difference - ONLY to Christ as stated in the Bible; not Mary, Peter, Paul or someone else the Catholic church has elevated.

It works like this for Christians:

Christ is the MEDIATOR and the Holy Spirit is the INTERCESSOR. Christ ALONE, died for our sins; not Peter, Paul or Mary. ONLY Christ. The punishment for sin is DEATH and Christ paid that price by laying His INNOCENT life down for all. The Holy Spirit did NOT die for us. Again, ONLY Christ paid the price.

1 Timothy 2:5

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Romans 8:26

[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


Again, pointing out that the Bible DIFFERS from YOU, is NOT "bashing". One can only hope what the Bible states should supercede what fallible mortals who are at odds with the Bible have told you to believe.

[spunkets]

"since God could not remain with us, He appointed a successor, Peter. "

The keys to the kindom of heaven regard forgiveness of sin. The "rock" of Peter was his ability to recognize the Holy Spirit, who was standing right in front of Him. That was a rational judgement he made regarding and based on all that he had seen and heard. That is what his faith was based on and it's additionally his firmness that gave it the character of rock. Jesus was speaking to an audiance here. It was not private. The audience was the whole world and that's why it was written. To think it was written as proof that God gave Peter special help is illogical. They all had seen and heard the same thing.

The loosing and binding refer to whether, or not individuals forgive the sins of others. It does not refer to rulemaking powers, or any individual's judgement capacity whatsoever. It refers to His command to wash each others feet, to cleanse them of sin. It is we He did and the command was given to all at the Last Supper. It does not mean folks should be slaves, serfs, or servants to the whims of others. That's illogical and He never taught such a thing.

The Magisterium is not infallible. It is composed simply of men given the same rational powers that all men were given, as per Gen 1. They're not seers and prophets, they rational agents, just like everyone else. That's given in Gen 3. Men are to work and produce by their own hands.

"promised the protection of the Holy Spirit to "guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13)."

Again, the Word is for all men. That promise was given to everyone, not to a few.

[spunkets]

"The Catholic Caucus is a protected church-like thread - challenges to doctrine are not allowed on such threads."

Sorry, I was unaware of this new rule. I respected devotional threads. My post 42 was intended as the keys to the universe. It is however, a challenging post. Delete it if you wish.

[Salvation]

Our Blessed Mother asked her Son to perform his first miracle. Then she said to the waiters:
"Do as he tells you."

Hmmmm.

Christ's first self-manifextation -- even though he protested that it was not yet his time, he did as his Mother asked.

[Salvation]

Please re-read the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper carefully.

"This is my Body."

"This is my Blood."

[NYer]

The Magisterium is not infallible. It is composed simply of men given the same rational powers that all men were given, as per Gen 1. They're not seers and prophets, they rational agents, just like everyone else. That's given in Gen 3. Men are to work and produce by their own hands.

Christ stated that the Church, NOT Scripture should be the final authority:   "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." (Matthew 18:17)  Christ did NOT state to refer to or consult Scripture for disputes and correction.  He said to go to the Church as It is the final authority in Christianity.  In addition, St. Paul states that the Church, NOT Scripture is "THE pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15)  Since the Church alone is mentioned as THE pillar of truth, then It alone has the right to discern the truth and interpret Scripture.   For if individuals could correctly interpret Scripture, then all interpretations would be EXACTLY THE SAME as there can only be ONE spiritual truth for the plural of the word "truth" NEVER appears in Scripture.  The Church is Christ's bride (Ephesians 5:29) and has no spot, wrinkle or blemish (Ephesians 5:27).  Christ also stated that the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18) so how can the Church commit error?  Individual clergy may commit sins, even popes commit sins because in the Church there are both weeds and wheat (Matthew 13:30).

[NYer]

There! I'll take mine with some butter and a sprinkling of salt. Thanks.

[NYer]

It was not written by "Catholics".

The Bible as a whole was not compiled until the late 4th century and then it was compiled by a Catholic saint (St. Jerome) at the request of a Catholic pope (St. Damasus).

---

Literally eating flesh and drinking blood is taboo. It's SYMPBOLIC. You are not to literally imagine you are consuming His body.

"I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." - John 6:51-56

If Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of Me," why would He establish an "empty" sacrament? The Eucharist is Christ's Body and Blood. It is not a "representation" of it or anything less than His actual Body and Blood. Jesus lost many disciples when he stated that they would have to eat His Body and drink His Blood (John 6:60, 66).  Yet He did not "call back" these disciples stating "I was just speaking figuratively."  He let them leave.  Why?  If He had been speaking figuratively, He would have called them back and "explained" the doctrine, wouldn't He have?

[Iscool]

His primacy was recognized by St. Paul (who in Antioch “withstood Peter to his face” over the vexing issue of his refraining to eat with Gentiles) when he describes in Galatians 1:18 how he went to see Peter to make sure his teaching was in line with Peter’s.

The underlined sections put out by your church are 100% false...They know it and you know it...Paul rebuked Peter for false teaching...And since God knows everything, I suspect these events took place to show us not to follow ANY man...Put no faith in ANY man...

he is mentioned by name (e.g. Simon, Peter, Cephas, Kephas, etc.) 195 times in the course of the New Testament.

And the Trinity wasn't mentioned at all by name...So that proves, 'nothing'...

One compelling biblical fact that points clearly to Simon Peter’s primacy among the 12 Apostles and his importance and centrality to the drama of Christ’s earthly ministry

Christ's earthly ministry was to the Jews..."The Kingdom is at hand"...But the Kingdom never showed up...It was offered but the Jews rejected it... Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Paul saw Jesus...And how did Paul see Jesus???

1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Paul worked harder for God than the rest, including Peter, put together...

2Co 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such a one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 2Co 12:5 Of such a one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
2Co 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

It is CLEAR from these verses that Paul spent time in Heaven with God...Learning the mysteries of the church, the Rapture, the Kingdom(s), the Jews, the adoption, etc...It was ALL revealed to Paul...That's why he couldn't wait to get back there...

[Carolina]

Did you not read the Religion Moderator's note. I refer you back to post #28.

The Catholic Caucus is a protected church-like thread - challenges to doctrine are not allowed on such threads.

[Iscool]

Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

There's the long and short of it...From us, to God...Straight as a laser beam...

[Bubble Girl]

No, it's my thing..

See you just said it was a "bad" thing. Stop with the guilt already. Part of growing up is getting to decide whether or not you want to attend church. My relationship with God is personal. You have no idea how holy I am or not.

But thanks for caring.

[dsc]

"See you just said it was a "bad" thing. Stop with the guilt already."

Rebuking sinners is one of the seven spiritual acts of mercy.

"Part of growing up is getting to decide whether or not you want to attend church."

God gives us free will, which means the freedom to choose evil. So, yes, that means you can decide to do the wrong thing. It also means that others can tell you that you have chosen wrongly.

"My relationship with God is personal."

Yaddada yaddada yaddada. "Do this in memory of me" is a command, not a suggestion.

"You have no idea how holy I am or not."

Oh, yeah, anybody who wants to gan get a pretty good idea.

[spunkets]

Matt 18:17 refers to a contested claim regarding whether, or not one sinned against his brother. That's not something that scripture can handle. Scripture can only be used as a reference in that case. It can not act as a judge. The judge must reference scripture for the relevant law. Jesus spoke with authority and refered to scripture as His authority.

"Christ did NOT state to refer to or consult Scripture for disputes and correction."

Oh?

John 10:34-
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[Psalm 82:6]? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Matt 18:20

"For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

"He said to go to the Church as It is the final authority in Christianity."

Then why does the Church use scripture as a reference? Why does it use scripture to justify it's doctrine?

"Since the Church alone is mentioned as THE pillar of truth, then It alone has the right to discern the truth and interpret Scripture.

John 12:42-46 "Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God.

Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

I don't see where He mentions believing in a church here, only in His words. His words are what count, not what anyone says about those words. The words speak for themselves and they are quotes from God Hiimself. To know the person of God, one must look at the person Himself. All other claims about that person made by others, must be referred to and found to be logically consistent with the words spoken by that person. If there's a conflict, the persons own words rule.

"For if individuals could correctly interpret Scripture, then all interpretations would be EXACTLY THE SAME as there can only be ONE spiritual truth for the plural of the word "truth" NEVER appears in Scripture."

You are right to say there is one truth and it is unique. The rule though, is rational examination and logical consistency. The rule is not axiomatic, as is doctrine.

John 15:7
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.

He is refering to the Holy Spirit here, the sign of Jonah, the bread of life, the bread prayed for in the Lord's prayer and those other things similar to what is contained in the Lord's prayer.

"The Church is Christ's bride (Ephesians 5:29) and has no spot, wrinkle or blemish (Ephesians 5:27)."

Luke 11:52
"Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering."

"Christ also stated that the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18) so how can the Church commit error?"

See Luke 11:52 above. It is not scripture that can be in error, but the experts in the law that can be.

[Bubble Girl]

"Oh, yeah, anybody who wants to gan get a pretty good idea."



Oh ouch! That hurt!

Not.

Since when is being an asshole part of being a Catholic?

[dsc]

"Oh ouch! That hurt!"

What in the world would give you the idea that it was supposed to hurt? It is a simple statement of fact, as true of any of us as of you.

[Conservative til I die]

It was not written by "Catholics".

Of course it was. The New Testament at least. As a Bible-only Christian, you'd certainly agree that Christ founded His Church during His ministry on Earth. The Apostles and especially St. Peter were the foundation of that Church. The first members and first leaders. And of course that Church was the Catholic Church. The Apostles St. Matthew and St. John wrote half of the Gospels. Mark was an assistant to St. Peter. James, John, and Peter wrote several Epistles and John wrote Revelations. Most of the rest was written by St. Paul who though not an original Apostle, was certainly in line with them and was a respected leader of the early Church. Again, this being the Catholic Church.

Of course, over the first few centuries the Catholic Church took these Scriptures, preached them, protected them, made copies of them, and eventually met to decide definitively which documents were legitimate Scripture and which were not.

I'd think you'd have to agree with everything I've said. The only hang-up is whether or not these men were Catholics.

Of course, Protestantism didn't actually appear until around 1400-1500 years after the Scriptures were written. So really it is our book and the Protestants came and incorporated most of it into their own belief system.

[Conservative til I die]

Mary is just another sinner.

Wrong. She was free of original sin. God chose her before her conception to bear Christ. She had to be "immaculate" so to speak, to be able to bear the sinless Son of God.

But putting aside this argument, how is she "just another sinner"? She was chosen to give birth to Jesus Christ. That makes her pretty special in my book. Jesus lived with her, was raised by her, took care of her, and even got his DNA from her. That's a pretty special relationship.

Mary is not God. Mary has NO authority.

A) That old strawman? I thought we were all above the "Mary is God" argument here by now. That's Jack Ch(pr)ick stuff.

B) It's not a matter of authority. Mary is very close to Christ. Praying for her intercession is like asking a friend to relay a request to someone in power for something.

Living people can pray for you - there's nothing wrong with that.

And as a Bible-only Christian you surely know that those in Christ, though dead are very much alive in Heaven. And they're in a much better place and position than us lowly sinners down here in "the world."

The Holy Spirit did NOT die for us.

So what? The Holy Spirit is God.

[Conservative til I die]

The audience was the whole world and that's why it was written. To think it was written as proof that God gave Peter special help is illogical. They all had seen and heard the same thing.

Not true. Per Matthew 16:13-15, only Peter said that Jesus was the Messiah (the statement that lead Jesus to call him the Rock). The others said John the Baptist, Jeremiah or another prophet.

[Conservative til I die]

I guess. I no longer feel guilty for not going to Church. And that's a good thing!

Being guilt-free is not a good thing when it comes to sin. I wonder if men who cheat on their wives (sin of adultery) or women who have abortions (sing of murder) feeling guilt-free is " a good thing!"