[Conservative til I die]

Mary is just another sinner.

Wrong. She was free of original sin. God chose her before her conception to bear Christ. She had to be "immaculate" so to speak, to be able to bear the sinless Son of God.

But putting aside this argument, how is she "just another sinner"? She was chosen to give birth to Jesus Christ. That makes her pretty special in my book. Jesus lived with her, was raised by her, took care of her, and even got his DNA from her. That's a pretty special relationship.

Mary is not God. Mary has NO authority.

A) That old strawman? I thought we were all above the "Mary is God" argument here by now. That's Jack Ch(pr)ick stuff.

B) It's not a matter of authority. Mary is very close to Christ. Praying for her intercession is like asking a friend to relay a request to someone in power for something.

Living people can pray for you - there's nothing wrong with that.

And as a Bible-only Christian you surely know that those in Christ, though dead are very much alive in Heaven. And they're in a much better place and position than us lowly sinners down here in "the world."

The Holy Spirit did NOT die for us.

So what? The Holy Spirit is God.

[nmh]

Mary is just another dead sinner. If she was capable of perfection, which no mere mortal is, then we wouldn't have needed Christs' death on the cross. Even Mary needed the death of Jesus to be able to go to heaven.

Clearly the Bible does NOT elevate her in the way you have been taught. I notice as usual ... there are NO verses in the Bible to support praying TO Mary or any other dead sinner. We are ONLY to pray to the living God.

Again, I and other believers call high and direct. Praying for others is fine, however WHO you pray TO makes a BIG difference - ONLY to Christ.

It works like this for Christians:

Christ is the MEDIATOR and the Holy Spirit is the INTERCESSOR. Christ ALONE, died for our sins; not Peter, Paul or Mary. ONLY Christ. The punishment for sin is DEATH and Christ paid that price by laying His INNOCENT life down for all. The Holy Spirit did NOT die for us. Again, ONLY Christ paid the price.

1 Timothy 2:5

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Romans 8:26

[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

The Holy Spirit is on this earth and indwells within the believer. The Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity - three in one as stated in the Bible as well.

It really doesn't matter how you despise the Bible or how many pile on trying to minimize what the BIBLE STATES about WHOM to PRAY TO. Christians are ONLY to pray to CHRIST and the Holy Spirit intercedes for them. Christ is the ONLY mediator. None of us, including Mary are good enough to go directly to the Father. God HATES sin and why He had to look away when Christ was on the cross and all the sin, past present and future were laid on Him.

Don't you find it odd how you are taught DIFFERENTLY? The real question is, are you going to accept and believe what other sinners tell you to believe or are YOU going to believe what God states, rather clearly in the Bible?

It's pointless to keep repeating what the Bible says .. when you as just another sinner, refuse to accept it and believe it. Like Mary, YOU to need to pray ONLY to Christ.