Posted on 05/08/2006 6:51:40 PM PDT by churchillbuff
And if Christianity doesn't adapt, Bishop Spong says, it will die.
"As people change, liturgy has to change. I don't know why that's so difficult to understand," he told more than 200 people at the Church of St. John the Evangelist on Elgin Street yesterday, the first of a two-day conference organized by the Canadian Centre for Progressive Christianity, with the theme Religionless Christianity.
...[snip]The Christian calendar is full of stories and observances that are drawn not from historical occurrences, but absorbed instead from Jewish traditions, Bishop Spong said. Palm Sunday can be traced to the lulav, a bundle of palm-like branches used in the Jewish festival of Sukkoth. And even a central story such as the resurrection of Christ was informed by the slaughtered Passover lamb whose blood saved the Jews from God's curse in Egypt, he said. "I could take almost every story in the New Testament and show how you how the Old Testament is wrapped around it," he said.
For the audience, mostly a mix of United Church and Anglican adherents, the message was challenging, but one they had come to hear.
"It's a journey that I've been on, from the traditional arm of the church to a more spiritual view of faith," said George Bradbury, a retired teacher from outside Lindsay, Ont., who was a United Church minister for five years early in his career.
Those with questions about traditional dogma often find themselves isolated from their congregation, so the conference is a welcome opportunity to search for answers with like-minded people, he said. Still, deconstructing the tenets of the faith leaves a void that's not easily filled. "You don't know where you go from here," Mr. Bradbury said. "(Bishop Spong) said, 'I hope I disturb you,' and he did."
The second day of the conference aims to address some of these questions, beginning this morning with a session led by Gretta Vosper, the United Church minister who founded the Canadian Centre for Progressive Christianity, titled, "When all is said and done, what's left to worship?"
http://www.spurgeon.org/misc/dwngrd.htm
WE KNOW OUR GOOD PASTOR SAW THIS COMING.
5 SOLAS!
The original apostles were Jews. Jesus came to earth as a Jew. He got circumcised, presented at the temple, went to synagogue, studied Torah, celebrated the festivals, the whole nine. And so did the rest of the fellas. So no, John, I do not find it all that bizarre, or even controversial, that most of the ritual of Christianity springs out of Judaism. Buy a clue.
God in heaven, the man is an idiot.
Not this hedonistic publicity hound again... I really wish they'd toss Spong out of the church. He's been censured before. Just finish him. The man is a heretic of the worst sort.
A more spiritual path? There isn't any spirit left after Spong gets ahold of it. He essentially creates some Eastern Taoist Christianity that worships the self and this life and finds pleasure in sin. You can't even call it Buddhist-inspired because Buddhism claims that the essence of life is suffering and wishes to extinguish life.
Spong is guilty of the worst of sins: unbelief coupled with wreckless self-righteousness all presented as false witness.
Note that this big conference with a headliner like Spong drew a whopping... 200 people...while men with the message of Billy Graham fill football stadiums and churches across this nation. And Spong has the audacity to speak of how Christianty must change or die. The arrogance of this man knows no bounds.
I got an idea for the Rev Spong. How's about he forms his own church, and leave Christ's alone.
Has someone told him the Bible is literally proven true again as he is speaking? That what he believes was prophesised almost 200 years before he was born, and as he was speking, he was literally fulfilling prophecy?
I don't think that would bother him. Spong would complain that this prophecy wasn't compassionate and is therefore bunk and should be ignored.
He sees the Gospels as essentinally non-historical works of fiction, and I'm sure that's where he sticks prophecy, as well. This is a man who sees the masculine God as oppressing women (don't tell him how Asian women in particular have found freedom in the words of the Gospel) and therefore claims that the Bible must be re-written...
Who said that People ever change to begin with?
A cursury reading of the bible indicates that the premise of Spong's statement is in error.
This is one reason I like independent churches and baptist churches. They can throw people out like this. It only takes about 5 minutes.
I got an idea for the Rev Spong. How's about he forms his own church, and leave Christ's alone.
Perhaps it would be best if he went and played Asbestos cards with William Sloan Coffin.
He sees the Gospels as essentinally non-historical works of fiction, and I'm sure that's where he sticks prophecy, as well.
It should be pointed out to Spong that the same supposedly fiction written 2,000 years ago predicted people like him will appear shows that it is no fiction, and it should be enough to silence him.
People go to church because they want to hear about what Christ offers-salvation and rescue and abundant life- not hear "atta boys" and praise for thier sins and no plan of escape for the behaviors and mindset that has them in bondage.
So true. This guy is Bishop Sponge is basically saying that we have to kill Christianity in order to save it. WTF?
No prob. Mashiach will come and the whole world will acknowledge HaShem and the Torah of Israel.
PS: Spong is more honest than many others who insist that one can retain one's religious beliefs provided he divorces them from facticity.
I'd say the likes of Spong are doing quite well at killing off ECUSA...
"Vosper believes that all religions are human constructions — attempts to explain life or best guesses at what God is. She doesn’t believe that God answers prayers, or that the Bible is the word of God. She doesn’t accept the divinity of Jesus, or know what happens to us after we die."
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Ooh. Gretta Vosper has a Bond name and she's cute. Too bad she's I N S A N E . . . |
**Religionless Christianity**
I couldn't read beyond those words!
**And if Christianity doesn't adapt, Bishop Spong says, it will die.**
I have to laugh at that statement. The Catholic Church has been around over 2000 years, has not changed in matters of faith morals, and still stands firm as it did in the beginning against abortion, birth control, euthanasia, stem cell research, etc.
I know other Christians stand against these things too, but if the Catholic Church isn't going to change in over 2000 years, I don't think those other Christians will be changing either.
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