WILL SUICIDE BOMBERS OBTAIN HEAVEN?

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[servant675]

WILL SUICIDE BOMBERS OBTAIN HEAVEN?

Those who seek to terrorize others by killing themselves along with innocent people can never be assured of reaching Heaven. Among those in the Sacred Scriptures who committed suicide is Judas. And through the Word of God we know he lost his soul: “And Satan entered into Judas, who was surnamed Iscariot, one of the twelve” (Luke 22:3). “And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged (Judas hung himself), burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out....So that the field is called....’The field of blood‘” (Acts 1:18-19).

When God revealed: “Thou shalt not kill” He did not simply request us not to kill, but He Commanded us not to kill. Much like those who favor abortion, suicide bombers are cowards who lack a true faith in God. They place their faith in the opinions of men rather than God's Word.

Suicide bombers are selfish misguided fanatics who use their religion to justify their ideology. They do not earn the respect of truly religious people, and unlike a true soldier, will never be remembered as heroic. Their life is wasted, and they are placed among the criminals of society, rather than among those who have benefited society. A truly religious person loves God, and his neighbor, no matter who that “neighbor” may be. A religious fanatic only loves himself, and being filled with hatred for his "enemies," will even kill women and children to further his “cause.”

Will some suicide bombers eventually obtain Heaven? The extent of the God's mercy will always remain a mystery to us, but we know that God is also Just, and those who kill themselves and/or others with the belief that their actions will guarantee them a place in Heaven, will experience that Justice.

Vincent Bemowski - Writer & Webmaster

http://www.CatholicMessagesUSA.CatholicWeb.com/

[Michael Goldsberry]

The obvious missing statement is that "allah" is not God!

[GipperGal]

WILL SUICIDE BOMBERS OBTAIN HEAVEN?

In a word, NO.

[Jaysun]

"Will some suicide bombers eventually obtain Heaven? The extent of the God's mercy will always remain a mystery to us, but we know that God is also Just, and those who kill themselves and/or others with the belief that their actions will guarantee them a place in Heaven, will experience that Justice."

I don't think there's any question that they're stoking the flames of hell. A prerequisite to entering Heaven is that you believe in God, Jesus Christ. They worship a pagan moon good.

[Graves]

How about "Yes", but with no virgins to play with, only models previously used?

Who here takes Mohammed seriously?

[Brad’s Gramma]

No

[rlmorel]

Not according to the teachings of Islam, says Bernard Lewis.

If you commit suicide, even to end your own suffering, you are cursed to hell for eternity, killing yourself over and over again by the same means you did in life.

Mohammed refused to attend the funeral of a mortally wounded associate who killed himself to end his own suffering.

In the Koran, it states that a man who dies by his own hand shall be banished to hell, even if he is deserving of paradise in every other respect.

Apparently, it is pretty clear, and the murderers are being sold a bill of goods by the murderers convincing themselves to kill themselves.

[rlmorel]

Not me. By all accounts, mohammed was a man who convinced others he was a prophet for God, convinced them to kill for him to gain and keep power.

Just my opinion.

[Graves]

"... mohammed was a man who convinced others he was a prophet for God, convinced them to kill for him to gain and keep power."

And that's being generous about it. JMO

[muawiyah]

Whether or not Allah is or is not the same as G-d, the trick is that once you put yourself on that one-way trip to Outer Darkness, you can't get back into the mainstream where there's some sort of choice to be made.

Jane Fonda is a good example ~ it is apparantly totally impossible for her to become a Born-Again Christian.

She is already among the Damned. Presuambly these suicide-bombers, if they survive, remain doomed as well.

Besides, a CORRECT translation reveals its not 72 "virgins", but 72 white, seedless, dessert grapes that is your reward. At best those guys are only going to get one serving.

[muawiyah]

The traditional story (which you can find in the Koran if you know how to dig it out) is that Mohammad attempted a reform of the local religion in Mecca.

However, the folks who ran Mecca and made a lot of money off the tourists who came to visit what was purported to have been Abraham's altar, didn't like his ideas so they decided to kill him.

He and his 12 disciples, their families and retainers, and other warriors who'd decided to adopt the new religion, then fled with Mohammad to the city of Medina.

Subsequently Mohammad's involvement with violence was from the standpoint of being under attack by others. No doubt you can take a lot of the combat stuff out of context and make it look like he started a local war, but the full picture portrays him as having been merely the first victim of a war started by others.

Mo also DID NOT CREATE THE ARAB EMPIRE. That was done by others AFTER MO'S DEATH!

The Koran was put together in Damascus, the first serious conquest. The story is that all of Mo's sermons and sayings had been faithfully recorded on pieces of wood.

We really don't know how much of the story is truth and how much is simply warmed over bilge, but much of what is attributed to the Koran by non-Moslems is not based in a clear reading of the text.

If you want to see what Moslems say the Koran says, and what they say Mo actually did, you can check the Internet for many sources. If you don't want to, then don't claim you have done so by asking a Southern Baptist minister.

[rlmorel]

Yes, I know the story, but I am not interested in the details. Point is, it does not change my opinion. I did not ask some "Southern Baptist Minister", and I don't give a flying Fck what muslims think the Koran says, because either there are enough of them who don't have a effing clue and take what some evil people tell them it means, or the document itself is an evil screed, and the Islamowhackofacists are interpreting it correctly. Bernard Lewis is considered to be the foremost western authority on Islam, and I have read most of his books on this subject. I am no expert on this subject, I leave that to him. He appears to know what he is talking about. If there is any problem, I am sure it is not with his interpretation, but with my comprehension. I do not hate muslims and I do not hate Islam. I don't care if people want to worship Allah and a bloodthirsty misogynistic "prophet" (as I see Mohammed-though it is only MY opinion). That is their business, and I have no issue with it. I know a few muslims, and they seem like good people to me. Perhaps they are secular, as I am a secular Catholic, and believe that people should be free to worship the God of their choice without interference. But when people start flying planes of screaming people into buildings of screaming people who must choose between burning to death or plummeting to their death, and do these deeds in the name of a religion, and the silence is deafening from the main body of the religion and the people who practice it, well, I DO have a problem with that. The problem with Islam, is, that there are people who are aware of those who pervert their religion and do violence in the name of their God, but do nothing to stop it. I have heard only a very few outright denunciations of these murders. Every other disavowal comes with a qualifying statement about "But...the Palestinians....Israel...your poisonous culture... has made these acts happen." That is the damned problem. The problem is NOT what the Koran does or does not say, or if there are virgins after death, or if suicide murdering islamowhackofacists get to go to paradise, or if it is okay to stone your little sister to death because she made google eyes at some young guy, or if one does not believe in Allah. So thanks for the story. I appreciate the detail. But if Islam has a bad name, it is NOT BECAUSE SOME SOUTHERN BAPTIST MINISTER GAVE IT A BAD NAME. IT IS BECAUSE BARBAROUS SONS OF BITCHES ARE CUTTING INNOCENT PEOPLE'S HEADS OFF ON CAMERA WHILE CHANTING ALLAH IS GREAT! That, muawiyah, is why Islam has a bad name. People could give a damn about who worships what. Sheesh.

[muawiyah]

Picky, picky.

I've been reading Lewis for years. Many times he's cited research and dissertations written by one of my old teachers, Dr. Jwadeh, now deceased, at Indiana University.

Both Jwadeh and Lewis avoided the sort of emotional response you seem to like so well. Quite possibly this is because they noticed that out of the hundreds of millions of Moslems in the world, only a handful of crackpots seem to be into the terrorism business.

You have to keep your eye on the real enemy if you want to defeat him ~ the guys cutting off heads are part of it. The ladies wearing their Friday best to go out and vote are not the enemy.

You did know those women were all dressed up because that's what you do in their part of the world when you know you may be going out to face death ~ you do, of course, want to be buried in your very best clothes ~ the better with which to meet God.

When is the last time you feared being killed as you voted? What was your response?

[muawiyah]

BTW, just a side issue, but when I see a crime committed by a Catholic (who is identified as a Catholic for whatever reason), as a Protestant I generally do not internalize that as being some sort of black mark against Christianity.

Doesn't mean I don't think Catholics are Christians ~ it's just that I don't think Catholicism preaches crime, nor does Protestantism.

[kaehurowing]

This is kind of a waste of words.

The real question is how bad is Hell going to be for them?

[PetroniusMaximus]

***You have to keep your eye on the real enemy if you want to defeat him ~ the guys cutting off heads are part of it.***

The real enemies are the spiritual forces of evil that are behind these people. These enemies can't be brought down by armies, or smart weapons or covert operations - only by prayer.

The guy cutting off heads and the woman wearing her best clothes are BOTH subject to these spiritual forces because the are blinded and enslaved by the lie which is Islam. These people can only be truly freed by the Gospel.

Regardless of what our leaders say, democracy will not free them not will capitalism and the material wealth of the West.

This is a spiritual conflict. No one seems to want to see that.

[markomalley]

CCC Paragraph 2282: "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide."
"2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives."

I quote the first part of this, because I cannot think of a more grave psychological disturbance than one who would strap a bomb to themselves and blow up the innocent.

Naturally, the vast majority of suicide bombers aren't Christians, so the issue is moot, but, the answer to that question is in God's hands, not mine, nor is it in the hands of anybody posting on this board.

[rlmorel]

Your tone pisses me off. That is why you see it as "picky picky"

You wrote: "Both Jwadeh and Lewis avoided the sort of emotional response you seem to like so well. Quite possibly this is because they noticed that out of the hundreds of millions of Moslems in the world, only a handful of crackpots seem to be into the terrorism business"

Yes. It makes me damned emotional. I happened to have an acquaintance who was on American Airlines flight 11 on 9/11, David Kovalcin. Here is a picture of his face, he had two little girls.

So it is personal, and it makes me very emotional. And no, I DON'T like the emotional response, I dislike it, but I think it is presumptuous of you to say that I DO like it. I will assume you are just uninformed,and misinterpreted my response.

It is more than a handful of crackpots who seem to be into the terrorism business. You probably know how many muslims there are in the world better than I do...I am going to take a guess and say 1.5-2 billion muslims. And I will also make a conservative guess that out of a thousand muslims, 5 of them think Osama was a great guy and doing the right thing. That is half a percent. That is 7.5 to 10 million people. So, thats about the population of Hungary, every man woman and child, who would like to see all non-believers subugated, converted or dead. (According to Islam, you are either in the House of Islam or the House of War, right?) Hardly a handful.

And I am being EXTRAORDINARILY conservative. I have heard it said that the actual extremist element is as high as 10%, which would give us a country the size of...Indonesia. Every man woman and child, who would like to see all non-believers subugated, converted or dead.

But never mind that. By the way, if I am wrong on that interpretation by radical muslims that all non-believers should be converted, subjugated or dead, please correct me. I am not attributing that sentiment to the entire populations of the muslim faith, although there are some who say that is indeed the bottom line if you are of the true faith.

You also said: "When is the last time you feared being killed as you voted? What was your response?"

Why do you feel it is relevant or important to ask that? Do you think, perhaps that I lack respect for those who risked their life to vote? My feelings are quite to the contrary. You don't know me, you don't know my lifes experiences or my values. I resent the implication, but again, I attribute it to your ignorance of my life or values. I could ask the same thing of you, but I won't out of the concept of giving you the benefit of doubt. After all, I don't know you either.

I think, perhaps, that YOU asked that question because you make the assumption that if someone votes to gain a greater control over their own destiny, that the practice of doing that somehow divorces them from the concept that all non-believers should be converted, subjugated or dead. I don't think that is the case.

But I DO think Democracy is compatible with most forms of Islam with the exception of Wahabbism, and that Islam and Democracy are not mutually exclusive.

But the muslim world better get a grip. Most Americans, and others around the world, are willing to live and let live. But when a nuclear device explodes in an American city, people will not be so politically correct. They will take a hard look at what is said behind closed doors in mosques and madrassas around the world, and make judgements on that, not some pathetic lukewarm condemnation from some islamic mouthpiece.

[rlmorel]

And vice versa. Because we are a secularist, relatively tolerant society we generally do not affix a religious component to most crimes except in the rarest of occasions such as the lunatic who blew up the abortion clinics.

There is a body of people out there who think that Christianity and Islam worship the same God, they just have different customs and use different names...

It is rubbish. Mohammed is not Jesus and vice versa.

But neither then are Christians sawing the heads off of innocent people who scream in terror until their airway is severed, all the while intoning how wonderful and great Jesus is and the Christian God is. And there wouldn't be a big market on the street for DVD's and Videos of the activity.