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To: rlmorel
The traditional story (which you can find in the Koran if you know how to dig it out) is that Mohammad attempted a reform of the local religion in Mecca.

However, the folks who ran Mecca and made a lot of money off the tourists who came to visit what was purported to have been Abraham's altar, didn't like his ideas so they decided to kill him.

He and his 12 disciples, their families and retainers, and other warriors who'd decided to adopt the new religion, then fled with Mohammad to the city of Medina.

Subsequently Mohammad's involvement with violence was from the standpoint of being under attack by others. No doubt you can take a lot of the combat stuff out of context and make it look like he started a local war, but the full picture portrays him as having been merely the first victim of a war started by others.

Mo also DID NOT CREATE THE ARAB EMPIRE. That was done by others AFTER MO'S DEATH!

The Koran was put together in Damascus, the first serious conquest. The story is that all of Mo's sermons and sayings had been faithfully recorded on pieces of wood.

We really don't know how much of the story is truth and how much is simply warmed over bilge, but much of what is attributed to the Koran by non-Moslems is not based in a clear reading of the text.

If you want to see what Moslems say the Koran says, and what they say Mo actually did, you can check the Internet for many sources. If you don't want to, then don't claim you have done so by asking a Southern Baptist minister.

11 posted on 07/29/2005 7:08:29 PM PDT by muawiyah (/ hey coach do I gotta' put in that "/sarcasm " thing again?)
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To: muawiyah
Yes, I know the story, but I am not interested in the details. Point is, it does not change my opinion. I did not ask some "Southern Baptist Minister", and I don't give a flying Fck what muslims think the Koran says, because either there are enough of them who don't have a effing clue and take what some evil people tell them it means, or the document itself is an evil screed, and the Islamowhackofacists are interpreting it correctly. Bernard Lewis is considered to be the foremost western authority on Islam, and I have read most of his books on this subject. I am no expert on this subject, I leave that to him. He appears to know what he is talking about. If there is any problem, I am sure it is not with his interpretation, but with my comprehension. I do not hate muslims and I do not hate Islam. I don't care if people want to worship Allah and a bloodthirsty misogynistic "prophet" (as I see Mohammed-though it is only MY opinion). That is their business, and I have no issue with it. I know a few muslims, and they seem like good people to me. Perhaps they are secular, as I am a secular Catholic, and believe that people should be free to worship the God of their choice without interference. But when people start flying planes of screaming people into buildings of screaming people who must choose between burning to death or plummeting to their death, and do these deeds in the name of a religion, and the silence is deafening from the main body of the religion and the people who practice it, well, I DO have a problem with that. The problem with Islam, is, that there are people who are aware of those who pervert their religion and do violence in the name of their God, but do nothing to stop it. I have heard only a very few outright denunciations of these murders. Every other disavowal comes with a qualifying statement about "But...the Palestinians....Israel...your poisonous culture... has made these acts happen." That is the damned problem. The problem is NOT what the Koran does or does not say, or if there are virgins after death, or if suicide murdering islamowhackofacists get to go to paradise, or if it is okay to stone your little sister to death because she made google eyes at some young guy, or if one does not believe in Allah. So thanks for the story. I appreciate the detail. But if Islam has a bad name, it is NOT BECAUSE SOME SOUTHERN BAPTIST MINISTER GAVE IT A BAD NAME. IT IS BECAUSE BARBAROUS SONS OF BITCHES ARE CUTTING INNOCENT PEOPLE'S HEADS OFF ON CAMERA WHILE CHANTING ALLAH IS GREAT! That, muawiyah, is why Islam has a bad name. People could give a damn about who worships what. Sheesh.
12 posted on 07/29/2005 7:34:45 PM PDT by rlmorel ("Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does." Whittaker Chambers)
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