WILL SUICIDE BOMBERS OBTAIN HEAVEN?

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[cilcia]

"NOONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH MR"

These words of Jesus certainly settles the issue

[rlmorel]

Yeah right. Notice how there is no link "About us" on the webpage anywhere?

[Yosemitest]

An interesting question, that deserves thought...

I think the answer is in Ezekiel 23 thru 25 and maybe even more.

All of todays events are foretold in the Bible, if we will only search for the answer.

Yes... terrorist are responsible for their actions, but
weren't we told "So shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things..."?

[Casloy]

Those who seek to terrorize others by killing themselves along with innocent people can never be assured of reaching Heaven.

Say what? "Never be assured?" How about they can count on the fact they will find themselves in hell? Suicide is not the issue, if your goal is to deliberately kill innocent people, you are going to straight to hell.

[Casloy]

I think an apt comparison is to claim Jim Jones was a typical Christian. He no more represented Christianity than these Muslim terrorists represent Islam. My biggest problem with Islam is not that they are all guilty of being terrorists, it's that are refusing to clean up their own house. There is a part of Islam that has been taken over by a cult of death, and until that is eradicated the flow of suicide killers will continue.

[Allegra]

WILL SUICIDE BOMBERS OBTAIN HEAVEN?

I certainly don't expect to see any of them there when my time comes. ;-)

[muawiyah]

Hmmm ~ the Gospels ~ I think the ladies wearing their very best also had in their numbers Christians.

There are Christians, and Mandean Sabeans, in Iraq.

What does it mean when both the Christian and Moslem women show up to vote, and are prepared to meet death to do so?

[muawiyah]

You are still being picky. I knew a fellow who died in their follow-up anthrax attack ~ then there were the hundreds of my co-workers who had to take Cipro for 6 months. Some of them had their teeth fall out, or have suffered damage to major organs.

What makes you think you are alone in this.

My every waking moment is spent focused on tracking these animals down and killing them.

Time to suck it in and prepare for the battle.

[muawiyah]

Jim Jones followers not only commited suicide, they also demonstrated they were willing to kill innocent children and unknowing outsiders all for the greater glory of Socialism.

Pitiful, isn't it ~ may be a lingering addiction to purple koolaid is what leads so many on the left to want to suck up to people like Osama Bin Laden.

[Casloy]

As an aside, about 15 years ago I spent a week in Georgetown, Guyana. I asked a couple of the locals about Jim Jones and the only comment I got from any of them was how wonderful it had been because it was the only time they had fresh fruit and vegetables available in plentiful supply at that marketplace. Guyana was marxist at the time. Reminded me of Italians who always said that at least Moussolini got the trains to run on time.

[rlmorel]

Suck it in? You can explain that somehow, I am sure.

You said "What makes you think you are alone in this." I presume that was a question, but given the way you contruct your arguments, I would think you are dissembling intentionally for some kind of purpose.

Allow me to remind you: YOU are the one who started off by making an ignorant, insensitive, defamatory assertion about how much I enjoy hate, and ended it with the snide statment "If you don't want to, then don't claim you have done so by asking a Southern Baptist minister." Pretty rude comment, if you ask me. I generally don't attack people right off the bat with condescension or snideness, even if I disagree with them completeley.

Then you follow up with another posting, questioning my values and committment to an ideal, inferring that might not care enough about what I believe to do more that type words on a computer screen.

My first post regarding suicide in Islam was right on the money. Even though I did not copy it verbatim, I expect Mr. Lewis got it correct, and I believe I captured it correctly enough from memory to be accurate. Please correct me if I am not accurate. Maybe my reference to both the idiots blowing themselves up and the people who incite them to do so as "Murderers" offended you in some way. Well, if it did, too bad. If you want to disagree with me on that we can start another threat "Are the Suicide bombers "murderers" or "Soldiers of Islam". I will give you that is not much of a choice. You can reword it any way you wish.

Then I made a personal statement about my impression if Islam, which is reinforced every single day, that Mohammed was a man, proclaimed himself a prophet, and convinced others to fight with him and for him in a religious war in the name of his God. You happen to find the details of that charming, which is fine, but I find it irrelevant to the central point which is that I do not believe he was a prophet, just someone looking to pull the wool over the eyes of others. That is my OPINION, clearly stated

THEN I explained to you that, No, I do not enjoy feeling this way, which you stated that I clearly did, and explained the reasons behind my emotional posting; If I have less tolerance for Islam, it is because there is a dissonance between what muslims are saying to the world in MUTED voices, and what is most likely being said behind closed doors.

To illustrate why I feel that way, and that I have a flesh and blood reason for feeling justified (in my mind) anger at these people who were responsible, and anger at the religion and subset of people who encouraged and were implicitly responsible for producing those people. I put it in to show that I feel anger at the thought of someone who I broke bread with, sat late at night and talked with, shared beers with, became a grease spot on the side of the North Tower.

Then you come back with this "What makes you think you are alone in this." statement which should be a question. WHAT THE HELL MAKES YOU THINK I FEEL I AM ALONE IN THIS? I admit, I do feel that the minority of Americans and others around the world feel that we are actually at war, especially after I read posts like yours.

Here is what I perceive to be the difference, and I will state it as well as I can so you won't mistconstrue it (Being the well educated person you are)

You think this problem can be solved without a more involved and active participation of the muslim community. I will make a stretch and say that you think muslims around the world have been helpful in the war to find Al-Qaida and other muslim terrorists, and have done enough to root out islamofacism in their midst

I do not think we can solve the issue without the active participation of the muslim community. I believe what is being said by muslims to each other in the confines of their mosques and in their madrassas is different than what is being said to people outside the mosque and madrassa.

So do me a favor. If you want to discuss the issue with me, speak directly to the issue and use your obviously well formed intellect to shape and direct your discourse. Do not make assertions about my beliefs and thought processes, unless you want me to do the same to you.

[rlmorel]

Thank you for the succinct statement of an existing problem.

[muawiyah]

Look, you came on initially like one of those "glass parking lot" guys.

[rlmorel]

Then we have a misunderstanding...I have read a few of your posts, and generally find them well written so I was surprised to find myself with the impression that you jumped on me with your reply.

If you read my posts, you will find I am not a "glass parking lot" person...I too use that statement to classify people who think a solution is to carpet bomb from Iraq to Egypt with nuclear weapons. Personally, I never want to see them used except for peaceful purposes, such as building a moat around California.

However, I heard the remarks by Tancredo, and given the context in which he used them, did not find them offensive or foolhardy. And, as I said in previous posts, I am certain that is one of the scenarios painted out by our intelligence community. That is not foolhardy, it is practicing due diligence.

I really don't don't think we necessarily disagree on many of these points, and even if we do, I don't necessarily have a problem with that. Perhaps my skin was too thin, and I jumped back too quickly. I apologize if that was the case.

I just feel that Islamofacism presents the greatest threat to society today, more than nuclear weapons, environment, overpopulation, China or nearly everything else. My feeling is that if we, as a civilization, do no completely ostracize, outlaw and marginalize this type of behavior and make it a taboo, anytime anyone has a grieveance about something, a building is going to come down with screaming terrified people inside it.

And I just do not feel that the ostracization, criminalization and marginalization of the perpetrators of this type of activity has happened yet in sizeable portions of the Muslim world. This behavior needs to become as taboo as having sex with animals or your own relatives, and it is not yet there, not even close.

[PetroniusMaximus]

****I think the ladies wearing their very best also had in their numbers Christians***

Perhaps - but very few in number. What's your point?



****What does it mean when both the Christian and Moslem women show up to vote, and are prepared to meet death to do so?***

That "their beliefs therefore must be equal"? I think not. Islam, historically, has given birth to enslaved and repressed societies.

Freedom has grown up in the shade of Christianity.

[muawiyah]

How about instead of doing an imitation of one of our friends over in the robot-like, mind-numbed, knee-jerk Liberal wing of political debate we turn to a more complex sort of thought that MAYBE shared cultural values, sans religious color, may well be more powerful than people give them credit.

3% (at a minimum) of those lady voters were Christian.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***... instead of doing an imitation of one of our friends over in the robot-like, mind-numbed, knee-jerk***

You are hurting your argument with stuff like this.



*** MAYBE shared cultural values, sans religious color, may well be more powerful than people give them credit.***

Are you defending Islam? Islam is the problem. Islam is a lie that needs to die out.

The "extemeis" are the ones who are truly following the Koran. The moderates are really more akin to liberal or cultural Christians in the West.

[muawiyah]

I can see you didn't understand anything that was posted, either by me or anyone else on this thread.

You must not have liked my idea of giving Hagia Sofia to the Southern Baptists or something.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***You must not have liked my idea of giving Hagia Sofia to the Southern Baptists or something.***

No, I think the Hagia Sophia would look nice with a portable sign out front blinking, "Forbidden Fruit Creates Many Jams".

[tessalu]

Mohammed wanted to tell the world that he was more preferred by God than was Jesus Christ, who gave his life as a sacrifice for the sins of the people.

Lucifer wanted to be greater than Jesus Christ as well.
Mohammed taught that Jesus never did die at all, and that God took him to heaven, and Mohammed taught that Jesus will return and then follow HIM, and live for only 40 years and die.