The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

AP ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[CindyDawg]

I can't get into it right now but (don't go ballistic) there is scripture to base that David and Moses knew the Lord. There is also scripture to support that Christ was there in the past.

[IMRight]

Also not exclusive. Some hear the truth and believe, some hear the truth and reject it (they have "not believed"). There is a possible third category of those who have not heard and do not "believe or disbelieve". Like it or not, David fell into that category. He certainly WOULD HAVE believed in Jesus (and I'm sure right after the crucifiction he got his chance). But he didn't at the time.

You have also opened WIDE the door of what constitutes "belief in Jesus" since men who had never heard the name get full credit.

[RnMomof7]

Mz. Dawg to you :') See my post to mom. I would have cced you too but I hadn't got to your posts yet. Do yall ever read what you post? No wonder you get banned so much. Attack, attack , attack, and then attack again.

The attack is all yours cindy. It was you that accused the Calvinists.. You fired the first shot

One of the things about Calvinists Cindy is when we are right we give no ground..you have made several accusations (you are the one that raised the issue) I said nothing about Vince untill your accusations ...go back and read your own words..

So put up or admit that you were wrong

[IMRight]

He never said that. Not once.

Well, since you play fast and loose with what "is" and what "is not" Scripture today, I suppose you can make that claim. He certainly makes the claim implicitly or explicitly many times in what is commonly referred to as "Scripture".

[OLD REGGIE]

Is your position similar (Gasp!) to the Catholic one?

There is a certain similarity especially with the developed Catholic position.

[CindyDawg]

Lol. Buy in (?) anytime you want, Alex.

[Alex Murphy]

He never said that. Not once.

Does "I am the Alpha and Omega" ring any bells for you?

[HarleyD]

"What is it that makes you think you are one of the "elect"? How do you know you aren't one who is "not really of us"?"

Well, let's just say I had one of those "Damascus road" experience in which God changed my heart. It was all God's work-not mine. I've never doubted my salvation from that point-over thirty years ago. What I've never understood is why God was willing to save me.

Do you depend on the things that you do for God for salvation? Do you think you're one of the elect because you belong to a church?

[OLD REGGIE]

"I AM"

Where?

[CindyDawg]

Yawn. I'm getting bored with this mom. Look what's happening while this goes on. Put up or shut up, huh? Ok' no more posts about who did it from either of us, ok? Break is over anyway.

[RnMomof7]

LOL , blindfold huh?

Sometimes when the kids misbehave they point to each other and say "he did it"

Kinnda like Adam saying "it was the woman you gave me" .

We did not start the accusations of "ratting" , but if they have nothing better to do than try to divert attention away from the subject at hand..so be it

[IMRight]

I can't get into it right now but (don't go ballistic) there is scripture to base that David and Moses knew the Lord. There is also scripture to support that Christ was there in the past.

Ballistic???

OF course David and Moses knew the Lord

And of course "Christ was there in the past" ("before Abraham was, I AM"). That isn't the same thing as making Moses out to be a Baptist. You think the Lord pulled him aside and said "listen, I'm going to give you a bunch of laws, but I want you to know what My plans are for a couple thousand years from now... keep 'em a secret"???

There were plenty of Jews who got to go to Heaven on Easter Sunday, but they weren't some "secret underground club" within Judaism that got the REAL story given to them in advance. Being faithful to what had been given to you (at the time) was what counted.

[IMRight]

Where?

John 8:58 -

[JohnnyM]

"No. I didn't pay enough attention to your two part question. I believe there is more than one path to salvation. That is, outside of Christianity. I don't believe it is necessary to accept the Trinity"

John 14:6 says nothing of the Trinity. It simply says Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and NO ONE can come to the Father except through Him. There is no Trinity doctrine there. Was Jesus wrong? Is there another way?

JM

[CindyDawg]

I guess I'm missing something here. Happens when only time to scan. I'll catch up when I get home. Later.

[RnMomof7]

Resty and I have gone around on the LDS for I think 2 years. She know I believe she is lost..we have never minced words.

We do not spend days discuss shopping or horses or motorcycles. I do not expect to "win " her to Christ. Either he sends her the grace needed to believe or not .

[IMRight]

I could use some links on the subject. Turns out my new coworker is LDS (at least I assume so from a couple things that were said when discussing "The Passion"). I'm not looking for "ammunition", just ways that they have been approached in the past that have been fruitful.

[JohnnyM]

"There is a possible third category of those who have not heard and do not "believe or disbelieve"."

Do you have Scripture for this? Are you saying Jesus is wrong in saying NOONE comes to the Father except through Him?

Romans 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

How can one be saved without believing??

JM

[Alex Murphy]

That isn't the same thing as making Moses out to be a Baptist

Moses was only part-Baptist, donchaknow. We know he was a good Reformer because he only sprinkled the chosen Jews [1Cor.10.2], but you can also claim he was a Baptist because he saw fit to completely immerse the unconverted Egyptians.

[SoothingDave]

Well, let's just say I had one of those "Damascus road" experience in which God changed my heart. It was all God's work-not mine. I've never doubted my salvation from that point-over thirty years ago.

Surely you know many have these "ephiphanies" and later on fall away? How do you know yours is genuine, that it was truly of God? How do you know you're not just a goat who is convinced that he is a sheep?

Do you depend on the things that you do for God for salvation?

Heavens no! I depend on the things God does for me.

Do you think you're one of the elect because you belong to a church?

I think if I don't die in a state of unrepentant mortal sin that I will go to Heaven. I avail myself freely of the blessings He has made available through His Church. But simply going through the motions is not enough. There must be sincere faith and action based upon that faith.

SD