The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

And since you believe Calvinism to be false teaching I commend you for continuing to stand up against it, but be consistent and stand up to everyone you think is teaching falsely.

I have, you like your swarm buddys were not here all the time to know what I was standing up against, beside you calvinists are far worse then the likes of ET.

BigMack

2,681 posted on 04/08/2004 10:30:32 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain (Proud member of the Lunatic Fringe, we love Spam, Uzi's and Jesus)

Maybe either or both can be considered child abuse. ;-)

Many non-Christian/non-Jews might say so...

But I would think "God said so" pretty much defines the morality of the subject.

2,682 posted on 04/08/2004 10:34:29 AM PDT by IMRight

To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain; ksen

but be consistent and stand up to everyone you think is teaching falsely.

Are you new here?

Mack stands up to everybody - regardless of whether they agree with him or not.

2,683 posted on 04/08/2004 10:36:06 AM PDT by IMRight

Would you go with daycare or a sitter in your home? Why?

My mother used to tie me, on a long leash, to a tree. It worked.

2,684 posted on 04/08/2004 10:44:25 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian?)

As far as having chosen the people of Israel, God didn't compel them to obey their side of the covenant.

Didn't say that God compelled them to obey the Covenant. Just said that He was the one who chose them to be His people.

2,685 posted on 04/08/2004 10:48:02 AM PDT by ksen (This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth I bid you stand, Men of the West!)

Did she leave you a pork chop, too?

2,686 posted on 04/08/2004 10:55:01 AM PDT by SoothingDave

Very confusing Ksen. Remember the other day when I said you posted differently but couldn't describe it? I can now . It's prideful. I'm not going to talk about ET since she isn't here to defend herself but from your stand point what difference does it make? If a non-believer is part of the "elect" what difference does it make.? Why care? What will happen will happen.

From my prespective I see things right the opposite. I wish there were more non-believers hanging out here to hear the "word" over and over and just maybe some of it might sink in. It really bothers me though when people we are working with have other Christians come in and tell them they are either in or out depending on whether God enie, minied them to Hell or Heaven before they were created. Why should they care about accepting Christ if told their future decided a long time ago?

2,687 posted on 04/08/2004 10:56:04 AM PDT by CindyDawg

To: OLD REGGIE; PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain

Becky says that's not why you do it but I lunged JJ the other day. Took the fresh right out of him:')

2,688 posted on 04/08/2004 10:57:48 AM PDT by CindyDawg

To: CindyDawg; ksen

Despair or smugness. That's your options when presented with Calvinism. Those suffering from depression or really down on their luck are likely to assume that Calvinism means they are doomed and that's why bad stuff keeps happening to them, cause God hates them. And there's nothing you can do about it if He does.

Real nice message.

2,689 posted on 04/08/2004 11:07:22 AM PDT by SoothingDave

But I would think "God said so" pretty much defines the morality of the subject.

How big is the rod you beat your children with?

Proverbs 13:
[24] He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.

2,690 posted on 04/08/2004 11:10:23 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian?)

To: SoothingDave

Did she leave you a pork chop, too?

No. Just a pail of water.

2,691 posted on 04/08/2004 11:12:45 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian?)

Jim and Edna were both patients in a mental hospital. One day while they were walking past the hospital swimming pool, Jim suddenly jumped into the deep end. He sank to the bottom of the pool and stayed there. Edna promptly jumped in to save him. She swam to the bottom and pulled Jim out.

When the medical director became aware of Edna's heroic act, he immediately ordered her to be discharged from the hospital, as he now considered her to be mentally stable. When he went to tell Edna the news, he said, "Edna I have good news and bad news. The good news is you're being discharged; since you were able to rationally respond to a crisis by jumping in and saving the life of another patient, I have concluded that your act displays sound mindedness.

The bad news is, Jim, the patient you saved, hung himself with his bathrobe belt in the bathroom. I am sorry, but he's dead." Edna replied, "He didn't hang himself, I put him there to dry. How soon did you say I can go home?"

2,692 posted on 04/08/2004 11:19:06 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian?)

2,693 posted on 04/08/2004 11:21:05 AM PDT by CindyDawg

I don't presume to know who is and who isn't Elect.

Does this include yourself? Just curious.

2,694 posted on 04/08/2004 11:27:01 AM PDT by malakhi (L'shana haba'ah b'Yerushalayim!)

To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain

I was a member of a church that got torn apart by closet calvinists that were working undercover to take over the church, I've seen first hand how you calvinists love the flock, calvinsim is a cancer on the church and needs to be exposed fot the lie that it is.

We have just the opposite problem in the Presbyterian church. We have former Southern Baptists and Methodists who didn't pay attention in communicants class.

When the minister preaches the uncompromised Word of God as contained in the Bible, they get mad. They say want a more "warm and fuzzy feeling" when they go to church.

I left the Methodist Church (UMC) and became a Presbyterian after I had actually read the Bible, not just selected passages. Reformed theology made sense to me and followed what is printed in the Bible.

IMHO, the Methodist churches that I attended really didn't teach much theology. Just nice stories.

This "cancer" as you call it will spread as long as people study all of God's Word.

2,695 posted on 04/08/2004 11:27:40 AM PDT by A. Patriot

To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain

She and Steven are not one of the "ELECT" they have heard the gospel and have rejected it,

Yo mama. I haven't rejected the Gospel. I just believe the same one that the 70 went out and preached before it became exclusively all about death and ressurection. Remember? The kingdom? With David on the throne?

2,696 posted on 04/08/2004 11:50:28 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant

How big is the rod you beat your children with?

I use the original stick from "The Quiet Man" that John Wayne was given "to beat the pretty lady with".

You think perhaps God was speaking figuratively when He instituted circumcision? Or is it that "God said so" isn't good enough for you?

2,697 posted on 04/08/2004 11:57:18 AM PDT by IMRight

I thought it was about pretzel rods. They're good for teething.

2,698 posted on 04/08/2004 11:59:39 AM PDT by SoothingDave

To: SoothingDave

We are free.

Can you fly? Can you not sin? Can you live forever? Will you live one more second than the life God has allotted to you?

I understand your questions about "what good does it do you to believe that God's sovereignty trumps human free will?" I imagine just about every Calvinist started out as an Arminian of some sort and asked that same question. I did. Most of the Calvinists I know did -- "What good does it do, when during the day it feels like our choices are limitless?"

But you're correct in sensing this is the wrong question. If our lives are truly God's creation, and if God is truly God who loves us, then we actually CAN understand something of this reality. And if God has given us this perception, there must be some good in it.

And there is. Spectacularly.

The good that comes from knowing God is in complete control is that I actually believe the 23rd Psalm. The Lord really is my Shepherd. I really do not want for anything, secure that the Father will not forsake His children; that Christ's sacrifice was complete and saved me fully and for all time; and that for those who love God and follow Christ, there is no fear of death.

Calvinists "roll out of bed in the morning" and work to bring fruit to the fields and glory to His name because He told us to. He said if we love Him, we will do this in His name. Those who love Him, can do no less.

It sounds well and good to say, like so many have always said, "we struggle to have our will be God's." Of course it feels that way. But can the clay say to the Potter, why have you made me thus? That Scripture means something. Every breathe every human being takes in and exhales is God's will. That is the over-riding reality which trumps all our "feelings," and thanks to God's mercy, we actually ARE able to have some comprehension of this apparent mystery.

...comforting thought, but it is an insult to the gift of awareness He has given us.

You position this "gift of awareness" as greater than God Himself. I firmly believe my "awareness" that He is God and I am not, surpasses any "awareness" that I am unfettered by His will.

I understand your questions. "What good comes from believing this?"

The good is simple. Unlike so many, who say that unless the bushman or the imbecile or the week-old baby "is blessed by the Church," or "makes a public statement of faith," or "hears the word and believes," I know that salvation depends on God's mercy alone, and not on ANYTHING anyone might do to achieve it.

I know that none of us knows the names of the elect. But from Scripture, God's inspired Word, I know the wheat and tares look alike until the harvest. I know the thief on the cross received his faith as he gasped his last breath. But I know that the name of the thief had been written in the Book of Life from before the foundation of the world, and thus, I know that NOTHING could erase his name. He was a lowly, sinful thief whose empty life was ending in pain and fear. But as he died, he was regenerated. His heart was reborn by faith in Christ as God, and he believed. He did not come to this conclusion on his own. It was an "awareness" that was thrust upon him. He could do nothing else, but exclaim Christ's divinity on the same day he entered Paradise.

But you and I are so much more fortunate than the thief. We've read Scripture with the Holy Ghost as our page-turner, and we KNOW we've been saved by the redeeming blood of Christ ALREADY. We've been shown the words that say clearly to our brains "Relax, and know that I am God."

"But now, thus says the Lord, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: 'Fear not, for I have redeemed you: I have called you by name, you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through the fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you. For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.'" - Isaiah 43:1-3.

How much clearer does the "comfort" need to be?

Our faith is an outward sign of our redemption; not a ticket to purchase our redemption. Christ PAID the price. We ARE His. And EVERYHING we understand about our lives must come from this singular awareness.

If it's God's will, it already is, and has always been, and will forever be.

Or else He's not God. He's a nice old man in a white beard. He's Santa Claus.

2,699 posted on 04/08/2004 12:06:13 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)

So all of a sudden all on your own you became a calvivist just by reading the Bible, just like they don't have to teach those folks how to speak in tongues? LOL yeah right.

Say I bet you would be interested in this really nice piece of land I have for sale, just give me a call and we can work out the details.

BigMack

2,700 posted on 04/08/2004 12:18:49 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain (Proud member of the Lunatic Fringe, we love Spam, Uzi's and Jesus)

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