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To: SoothingDave
We are free.

Can you fly? Can you not sin? Can you live forever? Will you live one more second than the life God has allotted to you?

I understand your questions about "what good does it do you to believe that God's sovereignty trumps human free will?" I imagine just about every Calvinist started out as an Arminian of some sort and asked that same question. I did. Most of the Calvinists I know did -- "What good does it do, when during the day it feels like our choices are limitless?"

But you're correct in sensing this is the wrong question. If our lives are truly God's creation, and if God is truly God who loves us, then we actually CAN understand something of this reality. And if God has given us this perception, there must be some good in it.

And there is. Spectacularly.

The good that comes from knowing God is in complete control is that I actually believe the 23rd Psalm. The Lord really is my Shepherd. I really do not want for anything, secure that the Father will not forsake His children; that Christ's sacrifice was complete and saved me fully and for all time; and that for those who love God and follow Christ, there is no fear of death.

Calvinists "roll out of bed in the morning" and work to bring fruit to the fields and glory to His name because He told us to. He said if we love Him, we will do this in His name. Those who love Him, can do no less.

It sounds well and good to say, like so many have always said, "we struggle to have our will be God's." Of course it feels that way. But can the clay say to the Potter, why have you made me thus? That Scripture means something. Every breathe every human being takes in and exhales is God's will. That is the over-riding reality which trumps all our "feelings," and thanks to God's mercy, we actually ARE able to have some comprehension of this apparent mystery.

...comforting thought, but it is an insult to the gift of awareness He has given us.

You position this "gift of awareness" as greater than God Himself. I firmly believe my "awareness" that He is God and I am not, surpasses any "awareness" that I am unfettered by His will.

I understand your questions. "What good comes from believing this?"

The good is simple. Unlike so many, who say that unless the bushman or the imbecile or the week-old baby "is blessed by the Church," or "makes a public statement of faith," or "hears the word and believes," I know that salvation depends on God's mercy alone, and not on ANYTHING anyone might do to achieve it.

I know that none of us knows the names of the elect. But from Scripture, God's inspired Word, I know the wheat and tares look alike until the harvest. I know the thief on the cross received his faith as he gasped his last breath. But I know that the name of the thief had been written in the Book of Life from before the foundation of the world, and thus, I know that NOTHING could erase his name. He was a lowly, sinful thief whose empty life was ending in pain and fear. But as he died, he was regenerated. His heart was reborn by faith in Christ as God, and he believed. He did not come to this conclusion on his own. It was an "awareness" that was thrust upon him. He could do nothing else, but exclaim Christ's divinity on the same day he entered Paradise.

But you and I are so much more fortunate than the thief. We've read Scripture with the Holy Ghost as our page-turner, and we KNOW we've been saved by the redeeming blood of Christ ALREADY. We've been shown the words that say clearly to our brains "Relax, and know that I am God."

"But now, thus says the Lord, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: 'Fear not, for I have redeemed you: I have called you by name, you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through the fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you. For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.'" - Isaiah 43:1-3.

How much clearer does the "comfort" need to be?

Our faith is an outward sign of our redemption; not a ticket to purchase our redemption. Christ PAID the price. We ARE His. And EVERYHING we understand about our lives must come from this singular awareness.

If it's God's will, it already is, and has always been, and will forever be.

Or else He's not God. He's a nice old man in a white beard. He's Santa Claus.

2,699 posted on 04/08/2004 12:06:13 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
I know that none of us knows the names of the elect.

Except for your perfect self-awareness, of course.

I understand your questions. "What good comes from believing this?" The good is simple. Unlike so many, who say that unless the bushman or the imbecile or the week-old baby "is blessed by the Church," or "makes a public statement of faith," or "hears the word and believes," I know that salvation depends on God's mercy alone, and not on ANYTHING anyone might do to achieve it.

Well, if God is directing everything and calling all the shots, why couldn't he make the baptism of the bushman necessary and control events such that it actually happens?

That God is in control of everything, perfectly and without exception, does not mean that the actions that God forces we humans to make are without effect or meaning. Of course we are all saved because of God's decision to save us. But why must you think this means our actions have no effect in making this a reality? Why is God making us run through these motions that ultimately effect nothing? Why not simply entertain the thought in His mind, and be satisfied with it?

SD

2,701 posted on 04/08/2004 12:20:32 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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