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Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Then He did not die for all, only the ones that applied the blood over the doorpost. If it was not applied Christ did not save them did he? So he died only for the ones that repented and believed. Otherwise you have a universal atonement .
So I ask again, If Christ died for ALL men and God ACCEPTED the sacrifice (as proved by the resurrection) .How can God demand that men pay for the sin His son already paid for. Either it was for ALL MEN without exception, or it was for those that would repent and believe.
Do you believe that when Jesus said it is finished he meant maybe it is finished? Do you believe God fore-knew those that would be saved?
Now, don't get me wrong, I understand that the reprobate can never merit Heaven. But that doesn't mean that he never does anything good.
Sure. It's the difference between the dog fetching your slippers and your son getting them for you. One is by a creature, the other by a child out of love for his father. You view the same action in different ways. Both are objectively "good" but one merits nothing.
#4 on the list of famously unsuccessful pickup lines. ;o)
I know I said I don't dwell on this but since I'm bored "a OSAS child. Nothing here about fetching the slippers out of fear of being disowned or not allowed in the house, just a simple OUT OF LOVE". I like it:').
Thank you. Now I remember. I reject this as well, and quite frankly find it redundant with "Unconditional Election." I think they just stuck it in to make the acronym work. ;-)
Seriously, just for my own edification, why are the two different? Anybody?
SD
You can say it as many times as you wish, but it is still a circular argument. You attempt to demonstrate that He didn't die for all by saying He didn't die for all. There is no persuasive value to the post.
It's all wrapped up in John 3:16
"For God so loved "just the people who loved Him back"...??? No. The world.
Just go and look up what "the world" means. Remember "in the world" or "of the world"? It most certainly does not refer to just the elect.
God gave His Son for ALL. Not "all" have accepted it. The ticket is sitting there at the "will call" window just waiting to let them in - all paid up in full. But, sadly, some go unclaimed.
Do you believe that when Jesus said it is finished he meant maybe it is finished?
I believe you have little inkling of what He meant. What was "it"?
Do you believe God fore-knew those that would be saved?
Foreknew??? Sure. But that isn't the discussion. It's assumed in "omniscience". He knows who will win the Super Bowl... it doesn't mean He rigged the game.
God does not see the sin of the saved. He has erased it The ordinances against us were nailed to the Tree .
When God looks at us , He sees the righteousness of Christ .God loves those that are His.
God is Love, but that is not His exclusive attribute, it is just the one that most people like to hear.When you teach that at the exclusion of His other attributes you rob God of His Glory
God is Love, God is Holy, God is Just, God is mercy ( to name a few)
Without Justice Mercy has no meaning
Proverbs 22:14 - The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.
Lamentations 2:6 - And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.
Hosea 9:15 - All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.
Zechariah 11:8 - Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
Malachi 1:3 - And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Romans 9:13 - As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Psalm 10:3 - For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.
Psalm 11:5 - The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Psalm 53:5 - There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.
Psalm 73:20 - As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.
Psalm 78:59 - When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:
Psalm 106:40 - Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.
Proverbs 6:16-19 - These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among
Leviticus 20:23 - And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
Leviticus 26:30 - And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Deuteronomy 32:19 - And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
Psalm 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psalm 5:6 - Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful *
Psa 11:5** The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
I Corinthians 16:22: “If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be ANATHEMA MARANATHA [which means ACCURSED, THE LORD COMETH].”
Why do you think this is what some of us believe?
SD
If you're doing works out of a fear of he11 you're working yourself into the grave.
Just to prove we're going in circles, this is where I mention the really great (even for the generally crappier later seasons) Red Dwarf episode, "Cassandra," where a future-telling computer leads to a woman saying "I can't believe I'm being seduced by a predestination theory."
SD
Ahhh. Then He hates "the SIN" NOT "the sinnER"
He has erased it
I thought you believe that He "covers it" or "ignores it"? "Erased" is fine with me.
When God looks at us , He sees the righteousness of Christ .God loves those that are His.
Ok... now we're back to Luther and his "dung hill covered with snow". Which is it?
God is Love, but that is not His exclusive attribute
God is Holy, God is Just, God is mercy
Any of those contradict each other like "love" and "hate"? What happened to "God cannot lie because He IS Truth"?
Without Justice Mercy has no meaning
To think that "justice" implys "hate" makes me scared to think you might end up on a jury.
Are we really cleansed, or is God just looking through funny glasses?
SD
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