Court battle resumes .. over ancient remains (Kennewick Man)

Tribnet.com, The News Tribune's online newspaper ^ | (Published 12:01AM, September 11th, 2003) | WILLIAM MCCALL; The Associated Press

[vannrox]

Court battle resumes between tribes, scientists over ancient remains

WILLIAM MCCALL; The Associated Press

PORTLAND - The definition of "Native American" is at stake in deciding whether the 9,300-year-old skeleton known as Kennewick Man belongs to scientists or Indian tribes, lawyers for both sides told a federal appeals court Wednesday.

The Interior Department has fought with scientists since the bones were discovered in 1996 along the banks of the Columbia River near Kennewick.

A group of eight anthropologists who want to do research on the skeleton went to court to seek permission. But then-Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt ruled three years ago the bones should be handed over to the tribes for reburial. Last October, U.S. Magistrate John Jelderks overturned Babbitt and approved research on the bones.

Jelderks agreed with arguments by scientists, who said there was no direct link between the skeleton and modern tribes.

The government and the tribes appealed and argued their case on Wednesday before a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Judge Susan Graber asked whether the legal definition of Native American could cover any bones found in North America that were so old they rivaled the age of ancient fossils in Africa or could qualify as "Adam and Eve."

"Yes, they would be considered Native American," said Ellen Durkee, a Justice Department attorney representing the Interior Department and various federal agencies.

Judge Ronald Gould questioned whether the timing of ancient migration to North America suggested that 9,300 years was long enough to separate the skeleton from any relationship to modern tribes, but said, "That's a metaphysical question that's outside my pay scale."

In 1990, Congress defined "Native American" as someone "indigenous to the United States."

Paula Barran, attorney for the scientists, argued Congress did not intend to include people who lived on the continent long before European colonization.

In the Kennewick Man case, the Interior Department has interpreted the term "Native American" to mean anyone who was in the contiguous 48 states before the arrival of Columbus in 1492.

The skeleton drew scientific interest because it is among the oldest and most complete found in North America, with characteristics unlike modern Indians.

The case centers on the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, aimed at returning Indian remains and discourage illegal trafficking in bones taken from burial sites.

The law approved in 1990 was intended to right the wrongs done to Indians in recent history, not to block scientific research to determine how ancient settlers arrived in North America, Barran said.

In his ruling last October, Jelderks said the term "Native American" requires "a cultural relationship" with a modern tribe to qualify under the grave protection act. But he said his review of 22,000 pages of court documents, including scientific reports, produced no evidence to support any cultural link between Kennewick Man and the Northwest tribes.

"We're not against science, and we're not against technology," said Armand Minthorn, spokesman for the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Reservation. "But technology should not dictate what is done or is not done with these remains."

Alan Schneider, an attorney for the anthropologists, said such tests could avoid adding to the expense of a case that has already cost an estimated $4 million.

The appeals court is not expected to rule until next year.

(Published 12:01AM, September 11th, 2003)

[vannrox]

Man...this is just so tiring.

[LibertyThug]

"We're not against science, and we're not against technology," said Armand Minthorn, spokesman for the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Reservation. "But technology should not dictate what is done or is not done with these remains."

In other words, the tribes don't want science/technology to discover the true origins of the remains...Hmmm!

[wizardoz]

You bet they don't... if he's caucasion, Houston, we have a problem.

[Nowhere Man]

In 1990, Congress defined "Native American" as someone "indigenous to the United States."

Hmmm, I was born in Pittsburgh in 1966 so next time I fill out a form, I'll put myself down as "Native American" even though I don't live in a teepee and drive a horse to work. (with apologies to Andrew Dice Clay who inspired my comment) B-) The term "Native American" drives me up the wall as it is defined by the PC crowd unless you mean it as all people born here on US soil.

Seriously, we got to check things out and find out things about the past and this is the only way to do it. We've all heard tales of Vikings, Irish Monks, Knights Templars, Phonecians, Atlanteans, and so on running around the Americas from 2000 BC to 1430 AD. Even though Kennewick Man predates the earliest by about 6000+ years or so, I think it is conceivable that "Whitey" could have been running around the Americans in prehistoric times. For some reason American Indians want to suppress that because it doesn't jive with the history of conventional wisdom. There could be and probably have been significant events that occured prior to written history that we should try to uncover. The American Indians who opposed the scientists who want to run tests are not much better than the revisionists who deny the Holocaust because it doesn't fit with their views. If "Whitey" was here the same time as them or even before, so what, I mean I'm hear not too although my ancestors made it here much later from the 1870 to 1910 era. What counts is we live here now. I know myself, I'm a mixture of German, Swedish, Russian, Russian Jew, and Serbian, but since my parents, grandparents and myself were born here on US soil, I'm just as much of a "Native American."

[cavtrooper21]

There were VERY good indications that he was of "other than" what is concidered "native American".
The state anthropologist who did the inital survey thought that the bones were from a recent murder untill the discovery of a clovis spear point in the hip blew that down the drain.
When he started to put out info about the find the natives whined about it and had the bones confiscated.

[cavtrooper21]

There were VERY good indications that he was of "other than" what is concidered "native American".
The state anthropologist who did the inital survey thought that the bones were from a recent murder untill the discovery of a clovis spear point in the hip blew that down the drain.
When he started to put out info about the find the natives whined about it and had the bones confiscated.

[Vigilantcitizen]

This is your thing.

[blam]

European DNA Found In 7-8,000 Year Old Skeleton In Florida (Windover)

[blam]

Bye, Bye Beringia (8,000 Year Old Site In Florida - Windover)

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

The case centers on the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, aimed at returning Indian remains and discourage illegal trafficking in bones taken from burial sites.

Good motives. Bad results.

I have to admit being a bit torn at times. On one hand I am comfortable with and support the idea of the bones of my probable ancestors being studied. Mainly because there is so much left to learn and always will be.

On the other hand, I am not comfortable with the idea of those same bones being sold to a collector or to some nitwit who thinks he’s a witch to be ground up for devil powder.

[RightWhale]

this is just so tiring

It's a battle to the death. At stake are the careers of hundreds of philosophers who have developed a movie of oneness with nature in America, a oneness that goes back 30,000 years. If it turns out to go back only 3,000 years, slipped decimal--sorry, that will leave Hindu Gita as still the oldest and a pile of careers on the cutting room floor.

[Redcloak]

Caucasian? Don't be silly. I'm sure that lots of pre-Columbian Indians looked like British actors.

[blam]

This is 9,400 Year old Spirit Cave Man, older than Kennewick Man and the oldest MUMMY ever found in the Americas. He was found in Nevada.

James Chatters (Kennewick Man archaeologist) says he probably belongs to the same group of humans as Kennewick Man. (along with Buhl Woman and Prince Of Wales Island Man)

[patriciaruth]

The Interior Department of Bill Clinton established the Native American religion as the recognized religion of the United States government.

[pepsionice]

If...and its a very small if...you have have a set of remains tested and proven to be of European origin...and older than 1000 years...then the Indians lose their desired status in America and in the media. There are likely Europeans that did make to America sometime between 1000 and 10000 years ago...in small numbers. They probably were overtaken or wiped eventually by growing numbers of 'Asian Indians'. There is a similiar problem with the recent idea that the Chinese may have actually sailed to America in 1424 and possibly left members on American soil as well. I see no problem in allowing a limited test on every remains we dig up...and then hand the remains back over to whichever Indian tribe wants them. What I do find funny...is that the dead guy (over 6,000 years) may have been a member of a particular tribe...and its another tribe who claims him. It may be this tribe who actually killed him in the first place. Its a goofy law that never should have been allowed.

[Susannah]

Bwaahaahaaa...we wouldn't want science to find out that our current "Native Americans" murdered their predecessors. That would make them more evil than the European immigrants who DIDN'T murder ALL the existing tribes in America.

[Nowhere Man]

If...and its a very small if...you have have a set of remains tested and proven to be of European origin...and older than 1000 years...then the Indians lose their desired status in America and in the media. There are likely Europeans that did make to America sometime between 1000 and 10000 years ago...in small numbers. They probably were overtaken or wiped eventually by growing numbers of 'Asian Indians'. There is a similiar problem with the recent idea that the Chinese may have actually sailed to America in 1424 and possibly left members on American soil as well. I see no problem in allowing a limited test on every remains we dig up...and then hand the remains back over to whichever Indian tribe wants them. What I do find funny...is that the dead guy (over 6,000 years) may have been a member of a particular tribe...and its another tribe who claims him. It may be this tribe who actually killed him in the first place. Its a goofy law that never should have been allowed.

I've heard rumors of possible Chinese voyages to the West Coast too, there is even an alternate history book playing "what-if" they continued (or succeeded depending on the view) on their voyages and kept on coming. I think it is titled "1420" or something like that. There is even a group of people in Japan called the Anu who are descended from White stock too. There are a lot of mysteries out there that need to be examined and solved but there are some out there who are afraid to find out because of political correctness. I know the American Indians are said to be of Oriental stock, well if they can make it, why not prehistoric White or even Black explorers or migrations? I haven't heard of any prehistoric Black migrations to the America's yet, but perhaps they went another way from Africa to Australia where you have the Aborigines (sp?) and according to most sources, they've been there for 40,000 years or so. Myself, I often wonder if there have had been such voyages in prehistory or even some sort of civilization(s) that date before ours but have been wipe outfor whatever reason(s).

[ValerieUSA]

Kennewick Man is Patrick Stewart's ancestor

[blam]

9,300 year old Kennewick Man

[SunkenCiv]

Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.

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