Oh Yes! That's a joke!
Posted on 08/26/2003 6:40:54 PM PDT by qam1
Customers go elsewhere as new rules take effect in restaurants, taverns
By Craig Webb Beacon Journal staff writer
At a place best known for its hot dogs, cold beer and cross-dressing M*A*S*H character Cpl. Max Klinger, something seemed oddly out of place on Monday.
For one, the bar area at Tony Packo's was almost completely empty during the typically busy noon rush.
And the number of ``no smoking'' signs -- one on every table and a large one at the entrance -- almost outnumbered the hot dog buns, autographed by notable visitors, that are nailed to the wall.
At 12:01 a.m. Sunday, Toledo became the first Ohio community to nip smoking in the butt inside all restaurants, bars and bowling alleys.
As a result, the mood among smokers and bar owners has become spicier than the pickles at the city's signature hot dog spot.
Jason Mandel, the general manager at Tony Packo's, said one regular customer came in Monday afternoon to order one last hot dog and announce he will now be dining in a neighboring suburb where his favorite dining companion -- a cigarette -- is welcome.
Another regular at the restaurant's bar, Mandel said, came in Sunday and made a similar pronouncement and left behind one last tip for the bartender -- $260.
``We will probably lose a lot of business,'' he said. ``But it's too early to tell how much.''
About the only smoke inside the Durty Bird Bar near the Toledo Mud Hens' downtown ballpark was the steam coming from its fuming owner's ears.
``I've been yelling all weekend,'' Alva Babcock Caple III said.
His anger over the ban, which survived a recent effort by tavern owners to gather enough signatures to put it up to a vote in November, has prompted him to take his fight to the streets and attach a large protest sign outside his building.
The rambling sign proclaims that all are welcome inside the smoke-free bar with the exception of the city's mayor and the City Council members who unanimously passed the ban.
``I might have pissed off a couple politicians,'' he said, looking at the large white sign.
For his part, Toledo Mayor Jack Ford is taking the criticism in stride.
Ford stands by his push to ban indoor smoking in public places, arguing it's unfair to expose others to secondhand smoke.
``If we curb secondhand smoke, we have helped out a lot,'' he said. ``I believe that when people get used to it in bars, restaurants and bowling alleys, it will eventually help business and people will enjoy the smoke-free environment.''
Baloney, said tavern owner Eric Trychel.
On the first day of the ban, Trychel saw the typical Sunday night take at his Korner Bar drop from about $300 to just $24.
``It's going to put this town out of business,'' he said. ``We're done.''
If the drop in business isn't bad enough, they argue the price of being caught letting someone smoke is even worse.
A first offense costs $600 for the bar's manager and server to attend a three-hour mandatory smoke-free workplace education session.
The next infraction costs $800 and all the bar's employees at work at the time of the offense must attend the training and be paid their regular salary for their time at the session.
A third infraction costs $1,000 and all employees of the bar or restaurant must be paid to attend the mandatory training. A fourth infraction could cost the business its liquor license.
As for the customers caught smoking, the city will fine them $100.
In addition to sending police officers and air-control inspectors to look for offending businesses, the city has also set up a hot line for residents to report those flicking their ashes at the ordinance. By Monday, a handful of snitches had already dialed the number.
``The city of Toledo can't stop people from smoking crack, but they do this,'' said Ted Grandowicz, owner of Scotty's Cafe. ``If I thought no smoking would have brought in a ton of business -- don't you think I would have done it myself?''
It doesn't appear any other Ohio communities are waiting in the wings to follow Toledo's lead. It's not even being discussed in Akron.
John Mahoney, deputy director of the Ohio Municipal League, a group that represents 815 of the state's 900 cities, said there have been unsuccessful attempts by county health departments, including Toledo's Lucas County and Columbus' Franklin County, to adopt similar smoking bans.
But Toledo, Mahoney said, is the first city in the state to adopt one that includes bars, restaurants and bowling alleys -- popular haunts for smokers.
``Is this issue at the top of every city's agenda?'' he said. ``I don't think so.''
Please don't give conservatives and smokers a bad name.
Blowing smoke in people's faces and other obnoxious practices only help further the anti-smoking nazi's agenda.
The next infraction costs $800 and...
A third infraction costs $1,000 and...
A fourth infraction could cost the business its liquor license......
And what's the punishment for the fifth infraction, being drawn and quartered? You know, somehow I get the feeling that the Founding Father didn't bring about the American Revolution for this.
As for the customers caught smoking, the city will fine them $100.
So for 400 bucks I can put my favorite tavern out of business. Maybe competing bars are looking to hire a "smoking" gun.
Yes. Complete with re-education camps in Toledo for those who don't obey.
If I read into this correctly, the tavern owners, were not able to obtain enough signatures.
The non-smokers probably didn't want to support them, and most likely agreed on the ban.
Everyone must join together to preserve our freedoms. Sooner or later, they will do something that effects them too.
If only we were as free as the Russians.
Oh Yes! That's a joke!
Who won the race to the phone: minnie or cinnie?
The WOD science is the only thing that comes close
Could someone please explain to me what is wrong with this picture.
These bans do not apply to only bars and restaurants and bowling alleys - they apply everywhere, yet it is only places with liquor licenses that will be shut down for repeated violations?
Can anyone say selective PERSECUTION??????? Not prosectution (that too) but persecution.
I've been dealing with this same question with the state ban in Delaware, and even though I no longer live there I am still working with the folks there.
Here's the deal, whether in Delaware or Toledo or New York, you hvae a coffee shop on one corner and across the street is a bar, neither one is enforcing the ban, after the 4th violation (in Delaware it is 3rd) the bar faces a hearing regarding it's liquor license, if it loses its hearing the license is yanked - no liquor license = no bar. The coffee shop just pays another fine and continues on it's merry way.
Some time back I brought up this scenario, on a different forum, with a rabid supporter of the Delaware ban. Even he agreed that is wrong. Punishment (for lack of a better word) should be equal across the board. Yanking the liquor license of a bar is the equivalent of yanking the business license of any other business, yet no other businesses face that possibilty.
And while I am on this tirade I may as well continue........
Beside the insidious problem of selective prosecution, there is another sinister problems with these bans (as I believe most are similar in this manner to Delaware). The use of anonymous snitch lines, which leads to the establishment having to prove it's innocence rather than the state having to prove guilt.
I have attended some hearings in Delaware, which unlike Toledo, does not use police to enforce the ban and does not fine the smoker, just the owner. The "enforcement agents" are not permitted to confront a person smoking in a bar and do not make themselves known to the bartender or manager. In other words if they see someone smoking in a bar through the window, they do not know if the "reasonable" measures were taken to have the person stop the activity. the owner just gets a letter stating they have been cited and they either pay the fine by a certain date or request a hearing.
The hearings are farcical. The first one I attended, which was the first one held in the state, the agent first admitted to consuming alcohol (to fit in) and then said he did not notice the particular club being cited utilized a "fog" machine, admitted it was rather dark, yet claimed he saw 2 people in a dark alcove smoking cigarettes because he could see the smoke. The club lost.
Another case was a bit different. The violation claimed the enforcement agent observed not only several patrons, but the bartender smoking. The Delaware ban language defines smoking as the use of a lighted product containing tobacco. This particular establishment sells herbal cigarettes that contain no tobacco - they won the case.
The gnatzies in Delaware are now going to try to amend the definition.
The owner of the establishment that beat the fine is announcing next week his run for office - I'll get the link to the website that is going up to you all ASAP.
Could it be that drinkers and smokers tend to be a bit more independent-minded types in this Brave New World?
If these dangerous rebels are allowed to freely associate, anti-statist seeds could be sown, control freaks and busybodies could be held up to ridicule, proper respect wouldn't be shown.
No, persecution and re-education camps are the best way. No wrong forks in the road to Utopia can be taken then.
When reading the article that is something that jumped out at me - mandatory classes for the owners, managers, bartenders, and waitstaff after citation for violations....
Scares the beejeesus out of me - as it should every other conservative. Unfortunately we have found that many "conservatives" around here only cre about private property rights when it is their ox being gored.
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