Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Egypt demands return of Rosetta Stone!
The Sunday Telegraph - UK ^ | July 20, 2003 | Charlotte Edwardes and Catherine Milner

Posted on 07/20/2003 10:18:03 AM PDT by UnklGene

Egypt demands return of the Rosetta Stone By Charlotte Edwardes and Catherine Milner (Filed: 20/07/2003)

Egypt is demanding that the Rosetta Stone, a 2,000-year-old relic and one of the British Museum's most important exhibits, should be returned to Cairo.

The stone, which became the key to deciphering ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics, was found by Napoleon's army in 1799 in the Nile delta, but has been in Britain for the past 200 years. It forms the centrepiece of the British Museum's Egyptology collection and is seen by millions of visitors each year.

Now, in an echo of the campaign by Athens for the return of the Elgin Marbles, the Egyptian government is calling for the stone to be returned and threatening to pursue its claim "aggressively" if the British Museum does not agree to give it back voluntarily.

Zahi Hawass, the director of the Supreme Council of Antiquities in Cairo, confirmed to The Telegraph that he had begun negotiations with academics and curators at the museum. He said he hoped that they would agree to "voluntarily return the stone", but gave a warning that, if the request was rejected, he would intensify his campaign to bring it back to Egypt.

"If the British want to be remembered, if they want to restore their reputation, they should volunteer to return the Rosetta Stone because it is the icon of our Egyptian identity," said Dr Hawass.

"Otherwise I will have to approach them using a different strategy. There are various stages to our negotiations. I don't want to fight anyone now, but if the British Museum doesn't act, we will have to employ a more aggressive approach with the Government. I don't care if people know my strategy, the artefacts stolen from Egypt must come back."

Dr Hawass said that he had been discussing a possible three-month loan of the stone with the museum. "More immediately, we are prepared to accept it peacefully on a temporary loan and we are in discussions about that right now. That is a short-term solution, however. Ideally, we would like the stone to come back for good."

Dr Hawass said that the Cairo Museum, where the Rosetta Stone would be kept, had a replica of the relic which it would be willing to give to the British Museum in return for the original.

The Rosetta Stone, which dates from 196 BC, was discovered by French troops in 1799 in the village of Rosette (Raschid) in the western delta of the Nile. The stone's importance was that it provided a key to understanding hieroglyphic text because it was accompanied by a Greek translation.

Although the stone was Napoleon's most coveted war acquisition, the French ceded it to Britain under the Treaty of Alexandria in 1801 and it has been exhibited in the British Museum since 1802.

Vivian Davies, the keeper of the Department of Ancient Egypt and Sudan at the museum, expressed sympathy with Dr Hawass's claim, but suggested that legislation on the repatriation of artefacts would prevent the relic's permanent return.

"Will the Rosetta Stone be returned? I would say that our priorities are elsewhere at the moment. We are working with our Egyptian colleagues to preserve the heritage of today rather than concentrate on problems - or issues, perhaps I should say - that are very old," he said.

"We would like to co-operate with the Egyptians insofar as we can under the law. It is the same law that guides us on the issue of the Elgin Marbles - the British Museum Act of 1963." This rules that no artefact can be repatriated without the permission of the museum's trustees.

Mr Davies added: "Perhaps, if I were in Dr Hawass's position, I would feel the same way. We are having constructive negotiations over the loan for three months. It's a new idea he has produced and we appreciate very much that Dr Hawass is being constructive on these matters. We enjoy working with him and his staff."

Dr Hawass, one of the world's leading Egyptologists, has pioneered a major new museum development programme and encouraged the Egyptian government to pour considerable funds into archaeological research.

The Egyptian government has asked for the stone as part of a wide-reaching programme to return "stolen" antiquities from all over the world. Among the items it wants to retrieve are the bust of Queen Nefertiti from the Berlin Museum, the statues of Hatshepsut in the Metropolitan Museum of New York and, perhaps most controversially, the obelisk in the Place de la Concorde, one of the most famous landmarks in Paris.

Dr Hawass added: "The obelisk in France is needed because the Luxor temple from which it came is left with only one. The second one should be there with it."

Last night Neil MacGregor, the director of the British Museum, was unavailable for comment, but in the past he has described the personal significance of the stone. "I remember the first visit I made to the museum was with my father at the age of eight," he said. "I was fascinated by the Rosetta Stone. I was thrilled to be able to touch it - it was uncovered at the time - and physically connect with history."

If the stone were to be moved, it would be seen by far fewer people than is the case today: the Cairo Museum has about 2.5 million visitors a year, compared to the 5.5 million who visit the British Museum annually.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: antiquities; archaeology; britishmuseum; egypt; epigraphyandlanguage; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; museums; rosettastone; uk
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 161-180181-200201-220221-229 next last
To: MrsEmmaPeel
The article did day that Egypt wants the obelisk back. Maybe they are taking the line that the Ottomans stole the thing from Egypt and hadn't any right to give it away in the first place.

Since it is a famous Paris landmark, it would be weird if they gave it up. But who knows.
181 posted on 07/23/2003 12:52:06 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 179 | View Replies]

To: MrsEmmaPeel
the Parthenon marbles belong to Greece
In isolation, it's a reasonable argument. But Britain has a large amount of similar claims against it at as a result of our long period of colonialism. Though you may not want the debate exapanded to other colonial thefts, the UK government would be remiss if it didn't consider all the possible implications.

Any visitor to the British Museum can see that the Marbles would look better at their place of origin, but I think the Trustees of the museum would not be doing their job if they allowed this precedent.

Maybe we should consider a compromise - the Parthenon could be shipped over to London. I'm sure we could find space for it in Hyde Park. ;-)
182 posted on 07/24/2003 12:51:31 AM PDT by pau1f0rd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: UnklGene
We should just take all of Egypt from them.
183 posted on 07/24/2003 12:54:42 AM PDT by Porterville (I'm Hispanic, the Supreme Court thinks I'm only 2/3 a human being, where's my 40 acres?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sam Cree
The article did day that Egypt wants the obelisk back. Maybe they are taking the line that the Ottomans stole the thing from Egypt and hadn't any right to give it away in the first place.

Personally, that makes no sense to me. The Ottomans were in control of Egypt since the 16th century, so therefore they were the ruling authority. If they decided to give away a treasure to France, and a future Egyptian government is unhappy with the decision of their precessors, I think its too bad. I'll qualify this by saying I'm not up on the legal ramifications of the Egyptian claim, but it seems similar to a (hypothical situation) of France demanding the return of the Statue of Liberty.

184 posted on 07/24/2003 3:15:12 AM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 181 | View Replies]

To: Sam Cree
That 2001 decision seems way out in left field to me, tho I am not a lawyer. But clearly the Spanish monarchy, which owned those ships, no longer exists. That is, if the ships are from that era? Salvage law is way outside my field of knowledge.

That decision really surprised me too. Here's a link you might find enjoyable. Deliverance: The battle for $3.2 bn in sunken treasure

185 posted on 07/24/2003 3:25:09 AM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 180 | View Replies]

To: pau1f0rd
But Britain has a large amount of similar claims against it at as a result of our long period of colonialism.

My inclination would be to fall on the side of the British - as they were the legal authority. Obviously, this has to be taken case by case. But let's say hypothetically, that a great Australian Aboriginal treasure was lifted by the British prior to Australia's Federation in 1901. I don't believe Australia would be justified in demanding the return of those artifacts.

The marbles were different because this was a case of outright theft. The British government was not in control of Greece, Lord Elgin was not acting on behalf of the Government, but on his own. It became a British Government problem when the British took it upon themselves to condemn Elgin, then bought the marbles from him at a reduced price. It has remained a British Government problem ever since when members of both parties have campaigned and pledged for the return of the marbles, then nothing happens.

Any visitor to the British Museum can see that the Marbles would look better at their place of origin,
I profoundly disagree. Nothing beats seeing an item better than in its original context. Because the marbles were hacked up and now displayed in doors, we loose the drama of them in the context of the Parthenon, and its natural lighting. Who knows? Maybe there were cetrtain pieces that were oriented in such a way as to catch the morning light.

What the British could do is remove the marbles, return them to the Greeks, then in the space where the marbles (and Elgin's loot) is, convert that into a Virtual Reality museum. Visitors to the museum pay $5.00, for VR helmet and experience what it would have been like waking through the Parthenon in Ancient Greece. The Brits could claim that the original is in Greece, but they have the technology to bring the feeling of the original to life.

186 posted on 07/24/2003 3:38:35 AM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 182 | View Replies]

To: MrsEmmaPeel
[Any visitor to the British Museum can see that the Marbles would look better at their place of origin]
I profoundly disagree

Bit of a mix up here. I agree with you they would look better on the Parthenon (their place of origin) than in the British Museum.
187 posted on 07/24/2003 3:58:33 AM PDT by pau1f0rd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies]

To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 4ConservativeJustices; ...
Another blast from the past. A similar thread (different newspaper however) was likewise added to the catalog, but not pinged.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

188 posted on 12/29/2004 4:29:10 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("The odds are very much against inclusion, and non-inclusion is unlikely to be meaningful." -seamole)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: R. Scott
a system of duel ownership

:::chuckle::: unless one side decides to use bigger weapons.

189 posted on 12/29/2004 4:56:12 PM PST by NautiNurse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 135 | View Replies]

To: UnklGene
I can think of a scenario for the fate of the Rosetta Stone: The British Museum returns it to Egypt, then, at some future point the fundamentalists Muslims stage a coup and take over the government, declaring a new "Islamic Republic". One of their first acts is to "purify" the land of all the heathen artifacts so they ransack the Egypt Museum and smash the Rosetta Stone to bits. (Keep in mind what happened to the ancient Buddhist Shrine in Afghanistan after the Taliban took over - they blasted it to smithereens with explosives - didn't matter to them that it was thousands of years old!

...never send back the Stone (or the Elgin Marbles either).
190 posted on 12/29/2004 5:20:18 PM PST by Towed_Jumper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets; UnklGene
"and decides to crush them to powder."

Give the guy a couple of passes to EuroDisneyland.

191 posted on 12/29/2004 6:50:31 PM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets; UnklGene

There may be a way to work out a deal. If they hand over Bin Laden.... we'll toss a coin to see who gets the stone.


192 posted on 12/29/2004 6:58:33 PM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Larry Lucido
Tell them they can have Sharon Stone.

Nah. But they could have Rosetta Barr. Yeah, I know it's Roseanne, but it's close enough they might buy it.

193 posted on 12/29/2004 7:07:05 PM PST by Zack Attack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Radix
Perhaps the example of the Taliban destroying those monolithic towers of the ancient Bhudda is something to consider before anyone seriously contemplates abiding by the Egyptian demands.

Exactly.

"the Rosetta Stone...is the icon of our Egyptian identity," said Dr Hawass.

Until the future Islamist leaders of Egypt decide to blow it up.

194 posted on 12/29/2004 7:11:35 PM PST by denydenydeny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Zack Attack

Wow, I forgot all about that post. LOL!


195 posted on 12/29/2004 7:15:45 PM PST by Larry Lucido
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 193 | View Replies]

To: Larry Lucido

LOL. I didn't even notice the date when I posted.


196 posted on 12/29/2004 7:21:19 PM PST by Zack Attack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

To: Zack Attack

Are we still here? I thought we'd both been banned a long time ago!


197 posted on 12/29/2004 7:29:18 PM PST by Larry Lucido
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 196 | View Replies]

To: UnklGene
From a documentary that I saw about a year ago, the Egyptian Museum which houses all the priceless treasures of the Pharaohs is so badly underfunded and staffed with such badly trained technicians that many of the artifacts are deteriorating due to heat, city pollution and poor conservation practices.
I guess they'd really like to get their hands on a big stone - they'd just have to keep it out of the rain and it wouldn't require any further upkeep.
198 posted on 12/29/2004 7:36:45 PM PST by finnigan2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: aBootes; MrsEmmaPeel
Sounds more like a parrot to moi. ;>)

Why do I think that you might be of Irish descent, Mrs. Peel?

199 posted on 12/29/2004 8:09:17 PM PST by Ready4Freddy (Carpe Sharpei !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies]

To: R. Scott
The precedence for the acquisition of antiquities has been set, the Egyptians know how it has to be done if they want it back.

Exactly! I'd simply tell them: "Come and take it!" (Note the Goliad reference there.)

200 posted on 12/29/2004 8:10:00 PM PST by zeugma (Come to the Dark Side...... We have cookies!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 161-180181-200201-220221-229 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson