"googleplex"
Posted on 03/17/2011 10:39:24 AM PDT by milwguy
The media as usual is Waaayyy behind the curve. To anyone with a basic understanding of what is going on in Japan, it is obvious containment has been lost at a minimum of three reactors, #1,#3, and #4. The ability to restore electricity and cooling (doubtful due to the damage of the explosions) to the reactors does not change the fact that radiation is leaking from the site in vast quantities.
The Russians in sense had an easier problem to deal with because the reactor blew up, spewing a lot of the fuel asemblies and radioactive stuff hundreds of meters from the plant. The reaction kept going, but it was only at one plant and a lot of the fuel was ejected by the explosion, not 3 or 4 like in Japan......The Russians (and I think the Japanese) only solution was to entomb the destroyed reactor and building that housed it.....Here is how they had to do it................
The designing of the sarcophagus started on May, 20, 1986. Subsequent construction lasted for 206 days, from June to late November of the same year.[2] The first task before construction started was to build a cooling slab under the reactor to prevent the hot nuclear fuel from burning a hole in the base. Coal miners were called up to dig the necessary tunnel below the reactor and by June 24, 1986 four hundred coal miners had built the 168 metre (551 ft) long tunnel.[4] When the building became overly radioactive it became impossible to directly screw down the nuts and bolts or apply any direct welding to the sarcophagus, so this work was done by robots.[1] The seams of the sarcophagus, however, were not properly sealed. The entire construction process consisted of eight stages: clearing and concreting of territory around reactor unit 4, erection of initial ferro-concrete protective walls around the perimeter, construction of separation walls between units 3 and 4, cascade wall construction, covering of the turbine hall, mounting of a high-rise buttress wall, erection of supports and installation of a reactor compartment covering and finally the installation of a ventilation system.
More than 400,000 m3 of concrete and 7,300 tonnes of metal framework were used during the erection of the sarcophagus.[2] The building ultimately enclosed 740,000 m3 of heavily contaminated debris inside,[1] together with contaminated soil.[4] On October 11, 1986 the Soviet Governmental Commission accepted "Conclusion on Reliability and Durability of a Covering Constructions and Radiation Safety of Chernobyl NPP Unit 4 Reactor Compartment".[5] The sarcophagus has over 60 bore holes to allow observation of the interior of the core.[6] In many places the structure was designed to have ventilation shafts to allow some convection inside.[6] Filtration systems have been put in place so that no radioactive material will escape through these holes.[6]
At that level, a worker could spend up to 69 hours there——
Makes ya wonder why they aren’t allowed to be there at all at times, and why they have fire trucks lined up, disperse their water and leave immediately, then the next one can come in and do the same, doesn’t it? Fox said because they can’t be there only long enough to disperse the water, and they are clad in iron protection and special gear to protect themselves, or try to anyway.
We are told we are 1 number under Chernobly, yet 4 are in peril and 3 leaking radiation, that didn’t happen at Chernobyl, yet if anyone comments on it, they call you names and say you are panicking...
I responded with:
You really need to consider decaf.
That was rude. I apologize.
Then I gave the status reports. I didn't see 4 units in peril anymore. I don't believe there are still 3 units leaking radiation. We certainly had a lot of radiation leaking at Chernobyl.
Would you please support the claim of 4 units in peril and 3 leaking radiation with current reports?
There have been fires reported in various open-to-the-air rod storage pools several times now. Storage pool #4 has a sustained burn which is likely why it keeps going dry.
What do you think is burning in these pools?
Maybe you should learn a bit more about Fukushima.
LOL!
Keep it up. You’re amusing.
It is actually a googleplex times worse than this, but I am afraid people won't believe me if I say it that way. They'll just laugh at a funny-sounding word (which it is).
Managing radiation exposures is not stupid. Why should an empty fire tank truck hang around looking at the scenery?
sorry should be googolplex (I’m just warped on Google)...
That was the Freeper who started the thread, milwguy. I think he may have just got the value wrong or quoted the wrong one, but it goes to the heart of the matter.
Unless you understand the units being used, it is quite easy (I accidentally get them screwed up myself on occasion, because for any given standard you may see three or four different measures being used, such as Sieverts, Rads, Rems, etc. and those all have different scales used depending on the situation, mrem/hr; sieverts/sec etc.)
As you can well guess, 292 sieverts/hr is much more deadly than 292 microsieverts/hr. Just an example.
"googleplex"
Question, where is the entrance located in relation to the reactor, upwind, downwind, what? I suspect it is upwind as the wind is going out to sea. Radiation readings at the gate are useless.
At Chernobyl the Graphite around the active rods caught fire and burned for days. The smoke and particles from this fire carried many radioactive material into the air.
Has someone brought in Graphite to Fukushima and put active rods in it?
Storage pool #4 is now under controled temperature. It was reported earlier today that the pool still had water in it prior to that point.
Water spray cools down spent fuel pool at Fukushima, but radiation levels stay same
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2690369/posts?page=43
Do you mean fire or heat? If fire, I have seen a report of this. Could you give a cite or what you remember of it?
Please explain to the rest of the class how 4 Nuclear reactors with explosions are not in peril???
Thank you for the apology. I accept.
As for what I think..I think the ‘all of the above’ uses of energy is needed. I think Nuclear energy could be used safely and securely, with risks of course, because everything has risks. I don’t believe we have mastered it yet. There are always unforeseen events that happen that human minds can’t comprehend, til they happen. I also think clean coal, shale oil, fracking and more, can be used and we haven’t mastered it yet either.
I also think to stop people from panicking and to protect monetary trade and business, the government/s downplay the risks of what is happening. And also the damage that will occur in the future. It is proven cancers are caused by Nuclear radiation, yet the big push is on to downplay that. That makes me angry. We are adults. We can handle the truth. We can’t handle the truth when being lied to, the issue being talked ‘around’ but not talked through.
I also think, being told the facts is imperative. And that is not happening. Or when facts are givin, someone is sent out into the media to deny it.
I’ve noticed about governments you can’t believe their words, but watch their actions..it speaks louder than words.
The U.S. government didn’t ‘order’ Americans out of Japan, no they worded it as ‘voluntary evacuations’, so as to not upset the Japanese people. But evacuations are happening because of the inherent danger. Radiation monitors were added all across the U.S. mostly in the West, that action tells me they don’t believe that ‘we don’t EXPECT’ radiation to come here. Clearly they do and they are going to ‘monitor’ it.
I also believe as many scientist do, that many, many cancers that were not ‘documented’ as being caused by radiation, happened just the same because of radiation, and will again.
It will be blamed on your diet, you smoked, or didn’t, you ate the wrong color food, you excercised too much, or not enough, and that they plain out don’t know why, but the full extent of the radiation cancers won’t be admitted if at all, simply because of monetary reasons.
So a lot of people can say a lot of things, it’s up to each individual to research and find out the facts.
People fighting, bickering, calling names, insulting and threatening to shoot people, isn’t the answer, is it?
Downplaying even minute amounts of the danger of getting a cancer while telling people no harm can come to you, is criminal in itself.
So I think, Nuclear will continue to be used. And we will improve as we go. There are a lot of older reactors that personnally I believe have a lot of people in danger. Things fail.
Governments lie.
Having open talks about it, shouldn’t be suppressed by some.
Interesting. I will check it out, thanks for the link.
The gate readings are worthless since the gate is located several hundred meters to the west, upwind of the plant. How about the down wind readings since the smoke, vapor (and radiation) are going out to sea?
Lots of FR contributors are not really helping out here wrt logic and reason. You’d think a nuclear plant disaster would warrant that....
I have not seen a report of this.
I asked that because someone attributed that to me in a post..
Ah. No, not you!
The explosion were hydrogen ignitions that caused damage but much of that in now back under control.
Please look at the following chart that breaks down each component of each unit. This has been update often in the last few days and each version is time stamped at the top. It is produced by the Japan Atomic Industrial Forum
http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1300368041P.pdf
Reactor #1 Containment Vessel is not damaged, pressure is stable. Water injection is ongoing. The unit is scrapped no doubt, but I would not use the term "in Peril". Maybe I am arguing of semantics which is useless. I see that unit as stable with lots of work to continue to keep it that way.
#2 & #3 likely have damaged the containment vessel or at least the lower ring. But both I view as in stable condition since they were finally able to start the Sea Water injection in #3.
#4, #5 & #6 have no issues with the containment vessel. #4 spent fuel pool has had a lot of problems and has released radiation in the steam and hydrogen explosion. But other reports now show this to be in stable water temperature.
The U.S. government didn’t ‘order’ Americans out of Japan, no they worded it as ‘voluntary evacuations’, so as to not upset the Japanese people.
I think politics play a large role in this. Too many panicked people and this helps give them the ability to get out, because they want out. The immediate area needed evacuated. 20, 30 50 or 80 kilometers becomes arguing points and how much safety versus the problems created by evacuation. I've been around for hurricane evacuations. It cause huge problems and the likelihood is people will actually die from the evacuation order because of panic and stupidity.
Downplaying even minute amounts of the danger of getting a cancer while telling people no harm can come to you, is criminal in itself.
There has been ridiculous panic that can cause harm as well. People in the US Midwest and East coast paying several orders of magnitude above reasonable price to buy iodine tablets and dehydrated food. There exist real possibility of items like iodine tablets going in short supply if a major radiation release happened and a few 100,000 Japanese truly need them.
So I think, Nuclear will continue to be used.
I fear, because of unreasonable levels of panic in the general population and a media that feeds that, we will see Nuclear power greatly curtailed and overly increased in expense if used. No different than after 3 Mile Island, which actually did a good job of containing a bad situation (technically, not politically).
Please explain how contaminated sea water in the hydrogen explosion now has radiation in it as well, since you are posting so much ‘info’...
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